Richard III & the Car Park

[ChrisGeorge]

There are more ways than one of getting on to a horse - ramps, being hoisted up.

But there was no winch when he was calling for the horse at Bosworth, was there? I know, "A horse, a horse! My kingdom for a horse!" might be Shakespeare's dramatic license, but nonetheless maybe he wasn't so malformed as to make him incapable of getting on a horse by himself.

Chris

[Steve S]

Yes,I'm a Stanley....And with other members of the family selling out an English Garrison to the Spanish in the 1580's there's a pattern emerging......On the curvature.....I need to talk to people I know who do Medieval....The Mary Rose Archers were "deformed" exactly because of their military training I recall........

[Monty]

Sally,

The DNA is being compared to a descendant who is from Canada and I believe is staying in the country at the moment.

My brother was at Uni with the guy who is leading this dig. Speaking to him today they feel they have gotten all they can get from it and have essentially shut it down. It will be open for this weekends public viewing then next week shuit down completely.

I have managed to take some close up photos as I was allowed on site this week. I'm hoping to have the ok to realease them to the Ripperologist who are doing a small feature I believe.

Whatever the results are, the interest has been amazing. I for one have found the whole thing fascinating. Its kinda odd to think that I have passed the spot almost everyday in the past 10 years...if only I knew.

Monty

[Scorpio]

Sally,

The DNA is being compared to a descendant who is from Canada and I believe is staying in the country at the moment.

My brother was at Uni with the guy who is leading this dig. Speaking to him today they feel they have gotten all they can get from it and have essentially shut it down. It will be open for this weekends public viewing then next week shuit down completely.

I have managed to take some close up photos as I was allowed on site this week. I'm hoping to have the ok to realease them to the Ripperologist who are doing a small feature I believe.

Whatever the results are, the interest has been amazing. I for one have found the whole thing fascinating. Its kinda odd to think that I have passed the spot almost everyday in the past 10 years...if only I knew.

Monty

Hi,
The interest does not amaze me:Richard is a part of English history and legend; possibly finding his remains are like finding Harold Godwinson or Robin Hood.

[Sally]

Monty

Thanks for the info - and hopefully you will be able to release your pictures. And yes indeed, you never know what's just under the surface. Trouble with archaeology though is you never know what's there until you excavate and then... its too late!

I'll be interested to see what the outcome of the DNA tests are. Perhaps this will be an opportunity to learn more about the infamous Richard - if it is indeed him.

[Sally]

The interest does not amaze me:Richard is a part of English history and legend; possibly finding his remains are like finding Harold Godwinson or Robin Hood.

Well you'd think so wouldn't you? Although last time I checked the remains of more than one member of ancient royalty were just lying around in an old box in an abbey that shall remain nameless - so, maybe not always.

Richard has a high enough public profile to be taken more seriously, I should think. Shakespeare's play is still very popular.

[Robert]

I can't quote chapter and verse but as far as I recall, Richard was very much a soldier, well-respected especially in the north.

[Steve S]

Yes,played major parts at Barnet,Tewkesbury and the Scots campaign of 1482....Given control of the Council of the North,he turned round it's Lancastrian sympathies to the point where York recorded it's sorrow officially at his death.......

[Phil H]

Even Richard's enemies testified to his dying, fighting "manfully in the thickest press of his foes" at Bosworth. he was 33.

At 18 years of age he fought, and was (I think) wounded, at Barnet (1471) but fought again at Tewkesbury a few weeks later. he was Lord High Constable of England - a military position. Later he took part in the invasion of France in 1475, and was by all accounts unhappy with the negotiated peace agreed between his brother the king and Louis XI. He subsequently led a successful invasion of Scotland (1482).

All in all, Richard would probably have given his profession as "soldier" and seems to have been good both at the high command and the fighting aspects at a time when leaders led from the front. He died leading a charge of his household knights against the rebel leader, Henry Tydder. In that attack he unhorsed Sir John Cheney and personally killed William Brandon, Henry's standard bearer.

There can be no doubt of Richard's personal courage or his abilities in the field. The discovery of his remains (if verified) will allow us to assess what disabilities he had to overcome to attain that reputaion.

Phil H

[Scorpio]

I can't quote chapter and verse but as far as I recall, Richard was very much a soldier, well-respected especially in the north.

Contemporary accounts state that Richard unhorsed Sir John Cheney, a jousting champion,killed Sir William Brandon,Henry Tudors standard bearer, during the battle, and survived two earlier battles at Barnet and Tewkesbury.
Combat wise,Dick was no limp-dick.

[Rubyretro]

York recorded it's sorrow officially at his death.......

[/QUOTE]

Yes, I remember that. I hope that if it can be proven that it is Richard, that he will be buried in York (as I think someone said, earlier).

Wasn't he the last King to actively lead his men into battle ? (the biggest target), with all subsequent leaders staying way behind the lines ? (as Henry VII did, protected by mercenaries ?).

Richard was a brave man, whatever spin Shakespeare wanted to put on it.

Would we have so many wars if our leaders were obliged to ride out front on a horse in front of their soldiers ? It was a good system !

[ChrisGeorge]

Sally,

The DNA is being compared to a descendant who is from Canada and I believe is staying in the country at the moment.

My brother was at Uni with the guy who is leading this dig. Speaking to him today they feel they have gotten all they can get from it and have essentially shut it down. It will be open for this weekends public viewing then next week shuit down completely.

I have managed to take some close up photos as I was allowed on site this week. I'm hoping to have the ok to realease them to the Ripperologist who are doing a small feature I believe.

Whatever the results are, the interest has been amazing. I for one have found the whole thing fascinating. Its kinda odd to think that I have passed the spot almost everyday in the past 10 years...if only I knew.

Monty

Excellent news, thanks, Monty. When you think about it, the city of Leicester had two great men with disabilities closely associated with it: the Elephant Man, John Merrick, born there; and Richard III, buried there. Two important parts of British history and arguably of cultural, social, literary, and medical history as well.

Chris

[Monty]

Leicester is very much a Ricardian city Chris,

The main road out of the City is named after him, there are two Pubs (King Richard III formerly The White Boar then Blue Boar and The last Plantagenet) with his name, a statue to name a few.

I see nothing in York for him.

We welcomed him and took care of his body after he died. We have tendered the spot where he was slain and kept his name.

He should stay in Leicester.

Monty

[ChrisGeorge]

Leicester is very much a Ricardian city Chris,

The main road out of the City is named after him, there are two Pubs (King Richard III formerly The White Boar then Blue Boar and The last Plantagenet) with his name, a statue to name a few.

I see nothing in York for him.

We welcomed him and took care of his body after he died. We have tendered the spot where he was slain and kept his name.

He should stay in Leicester.

Monty

Of course Richard III is big in Middleham, Yorkshire, as you may know. Middleham Castle was his childhood home. The village was a favorite childhood haunt of mine.

Chris

[Steve S]

Leicester is very much a Ricardian city Chris,

The main road out of the City is named after him, there are two Pubs (King Richard III formerly The White Boar then Blue Boar and The last Plantagenet) with his name, a statue to name a few.

I see nothing in York for him.

We welcomed him and took care of his body after he died. We have tendered the spot where he was slain and kept his name.

He should stay in Leicester.

Monty

Yep......