Richard III & the Car Park

[Phil H]

Not around casebook much anymore, so only just picked this up.]

I think that is an excellent decision. It puts Richard in the same central relation to the high altar as William Rufus (Winchester) and John (Worcester) - a place of significant honour and visibility.

Inevitably it won't be quite as grand a tomb as Richard's conqueror, Henry VII, but it is a lot more prominent than say Henry VIII and Charles I (in a vault under St George's Chapel with a slab). His brother, Edward IV, has wonderful railings, but simply a wall-mounted inscription.

A chest tomb will be impressive. If they can run to an effigy on top even better - especially in bronze!!!

So I think this does Richard proud. I doubt York would allow (would be allowed to, given the heritage considerations) a position of such significant honour in the Minster (not that they'll win their legal challenge).

As always Monty thanks for the clarification.

Phil

[Monty]

It is where the current memorial stone is Phil,

Looks like English Heritage have agreed to removed the pews, as I and many othhers suggested.

Monty

[Phil H]

I like the look of this.

I am slightly unclear as to whether this is in the chancel/cemtral area of the cathedral (where the current memorial slab is located), or proposed as a side-chapel. But it looks promising - modern, dignified, reasonably simple and allowing people to circulate.

Thanks as ever Monty.

Phil

[Monty]

An update

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23355604

Monty

[Beowulf]

Off Facebook....made me laugh. -



The Battle of Richard III - a brief summary
Since no normal person would want to have to read all the media coverage of the current row between the cities of York and Leicester over the reburial of Richard III, I here provide an accurate, impartial and - most importantly - concise summary of the whole rigmarole so far:
-----------------------
Leicester: I say minister, we're getting rather bothered by this mad woman from the Richard III Society who's convinced Richard III is communicating with her not merely from beyond the grave, but from under a council car park. And she's offered to fund a dig, and the archaeology department look like they could do with a day or two in the fresh air.
HM Government: Righty-ho. If you do find any bodies, bury them again as close as is reasonably possible. In any case, wasn't Dicky dug up and chucked in a river?
Leicester: Quite possibly.
------------------------
Leicester: Well bugger me - look what the spade's hit! WE'VE FOUND HIM LADS! Except for the feet. And look at that - he was a hunchback!
R3S lady: Shite.
------------------------
York: 'Appen lads - Leicester ave found t'tourist attraction. Could be brass in that t'muck!
Leicester: **** off.
York: As t'name 'Richard of Gloucester' suggests, 'e were a Yorkshire lad!
Leicester: **** off.
York: And you lost him for 500 years
Leicester: **** off.
York: And some folks as says they is related to 'im want 'im in t'Minster.
Leicester: **** right off.
York: And us beloved Minster, jewel of t'North and spiritual 'ome of t'Northernness should rightly 'ave 'im.
York minster clergy: Actually we think he should stay in Leicester.
York: DIE, SOUTHERN PONCE!
York MPs: And we wants talks with t'Leicester MPs in t'commons.
House of Commons: ****. Off.
York: And talks with t'mayor of Leicester.
Mayor of Leicester: **** OFF!

[To be continued...]

I suggest we settle the issue in a way which Richard III himself would have understood and approved - York and Leicester councils should send out commissions of array, gather their forces, and do battle at a convenient mid-point (say, Mansfield - where any collateral damage would barely be noticed anyway). Not only that, but we'd probably end up with some spare feet to donate to his Majesty's remains. You know it makes sense.

Monty

Oh, I just LOVED this. Heheh, don't know if you guys regularly use the word 'rigmarole' over there but I don't hear it all that much and for me it conjured up memories of Richard Burton in Camelot singing 'since the whole rigmarole began' (how to handle a woman) and made me instantly smile and relax after a crummy day at work.

I would love to hear more about 'this mad woman from the Richard III Society who's convinced Richard III is communicating with her not merely from beyond the grave, but from under a council car park'!

Whoa ho ho! Great stuff here!

Well, ring up the archaeologists, by all means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcdyC8L_U7A

[Cogidubnus]

Sorry Neil

That won't do...first rule of history...nothing truly significant happens in Wigan, Mansfield or Bournemouth...

All the best

Dave

[Monty]

Off Facebook....made me laugh. -



The Battle of Richard III - a brief summary
Since no normal person would want to have to read all the media coverage of the current row between the cities of York and Leicester over the reburial of Richard III, I here provide an accurate, impartial and - most importantly - concise summary of the whole rigmarole so far:
-----------------------
Leicester: I say minister, we're getting rather bothered by this mad woman from the Richard III Society who's convinced Richard III is communicating with her not merely from beyond the grave, but from under a council car park. And she's offered to fund a dig, and the archaeology department look like they could do with a day or two in the fresh air.
HM Government: Righty-ho. If you do find any bodies, bury them again as close as is reasonably possible. In any case, wasn't Dicky dug up and chucked in a river?
Leicester: Quite possibly.
------------------------
Leicester: Well bugger me - look what the spade's hit! WE'VE FOUND HIM LADS! Except for the feet. And look at that - he was a hunchback!
R3S lady: Shite.
------------------------
York: 'Appen lads - Leicester ave found t'tourist attraction. Could be brass in that t'muck!
Leicester: **** off.
York: As t'name 'Richard of Gloucester' suggests, 'e were a Yorkshire lad!
Leicester: **** off.
York: And you lost him for 500 years
Leicester: **** off.
York: And some folks as says they is related to 'im want 'im in t'Minster.
Leicester: **** right off.
York: And us beloved Minster, jewel of t'North and spiritual 'ome of t'Northernness should rightly 'ave 'im.
York minster clergy: Actually we think he should stay in Leicester.
York: DIE, SOUTHERN PONCE!
York MPs: And we wants talks with t'Leicester MPs in t'commons.
House of Commons: ****. Off.
York: And talks with t'mayor of Leicester.
Mayor of Leicester: **** OFF!

[To be continued...]

I suggest we settle the issue in a way which Richard III himself would have understood and approved - York and Leicester councils should send out commissions of array, gather their forces, and do battle at a convenient mid-point (say, Mansfield - where any collateral damage would barely be noticed anyway). Not only that, but we'd probably end up with some spare feet to donate to his Majesty's remains. You know it makes sense.

Monty

[Monty]

Told y'all.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Turns-Richard-buried/story-18791460-detail/story.html#axzz2RSgnDaDx

Monty

[Errata]

Wow... I read All Thing's Great and Small when I was eight. And I learned how to save my neighbor's puppy with that book.

[Bridie O'Reilly]

Thank you Phil. I'm from Leamington Spa - so I know much of the history. So we haven't reached a decision either way!

[Monty]

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Reburial-service-needs-balance/story-18685865-detail/story.html#axzz2QEpbgkIV

Monty

[Phil H]

I think Herriott put Wensleydale on the map for many people. (Not Ricardians or historians or lovers of landscape maybe but for many.)

I do hope you get to see it again when over here. And glad i was able to alert you to this dvd - I have NO DOUBT but that you'll enjoy it.

Phil

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Phil

I did order the DVD so many thanks for cluing me into it. Maybe Donna and I will visit Middleham when we are in England in November. This is wetting my appetite.

I have been up to the motte and bailey castle, William's Hill, near the later castle at Middleham. I have also been to Fountains Abbey and Aysgarth Falls... picnicked there way back then. I mentioned on my Facebook page that in addition to it being Richard country and horseracing country it's the area of Downton Abbey -- though the series of course is filmed in the south at Highclere -- and James Herriott country.

All the best

Chris

[Phil H]

I last visited the castle and the village in the 80s. I doubt it's changed that much.

I love Wensleydale, and Middleham has such rich Ricardian associations that it is one of my absolute top ten places in the world (up there with Herculaneum, Housesteads and Les Invalides in Paris). Race horse training is of course a major industry there, and the beautiful Aysgarth falls are not far away - as is Fountains Abbey. There are also several other ruined castles in the neighbourhood.

The dvd reconstructs the castle interiors beautifully and gives a very clear and vivid account of how the castle evolved from a wooden motte and bailey castle on a nearby hill, to its present location anf form (and why). The Nevilles are done full justice, and the commentary is not dumbed down at all. It made me wish I could go back RIGHT NOW!!!!

The way the private apartments were arranged, their appearance and how we know is all spelled out, as are the likely accommodations of the principal household officers, and the "outer bailey" where the smithies and barracks were.

There are companion dvds on Sandal Castle (Wakefield) which I will order soon - it looks as good if not better than the Middleham title; and apparently on Conwy/Conway in Wales.

Sandal belonged to Richard III's father, who "gave battle in vain" nearby on the last day of 1460. He died fighting and his head, crowned with a paper crown was put on Micklegate Bar in York.

Sandal was a more "ornamental" castle than Middleham - I liken it personally to the chateau of the Loire, built on a Norman motte and bailey site. Whether Richard of York liked such castles on mounds I don't know, but Fotheringhay was of similar appearance.

Phil

[ChrisGeorge]

If you are interested in RIII, this dvd may interest you. I received it today and can thoroughly recommend it.

It is an "amateur" production and that shows, but you get an exceptionally good idea of RIII's favorite home, and the computer graphics are accomplished enough.

The amazon Uk link is here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Richard-III-Collection-Middleham-Castle/dp/B006W5J83C/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1364996062&sr=1-1

Phil

Thank you, Phil. I have been to Middleham on a number of occasions, and have toured the castle. I will seek out the DVD. I was taken to Middleham by my grandparents.... as you probably know the village is a center for race horse stables and my Grandad was big into betting on the nags. We would go up on the "gallops" on the moors to see the horses train in the morning.

Here's a bunch of photographs of the castle on Flickr.

Cheers

Chris