In honor of Great English Entertainment

[Phil H]

Max Miller joke - in the best possible taste (of course):

I was climbing Snowden (high mountain) on a path only wide enough for one. There was a cliff-face on one side and a vertical drop on the other.

Suddenly, coming down the path towards me was this beautiful girl. She was stunning, but only one of us could pass.

I didn't know whether to press myself against the cliff-face, or toss myself off.

40s innuendo.

Bona - as Julian and Sandy might have said.

Phil H

[Robert]

I think popular legend has it that he said, "I didn't know whether to block her passage or toss myself off" but Roy Hudd said that Max would never have said something so crude.

I must get hold of "Max at the Met" since that's supposed to be very good.

[louisa]

I think popular legend has it that he said, "I didn't know whether to block her passage or toss myself off" but Roy Hudd said that Max would never have said something so crude.

That's exactly right. Smut is the staple of modern comedians - they can't get laughs without it. The old style comedians relied on good old fashioned humour suitable for family audiences.

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As for 'silliness' - I can understand something being funny simply because it is silly. I found the Blackadder series very funny but hated Mr. Bean. Some silliness is just plain obvious, childish and un-funny (imo).

I loved Fawlty Towers. But as for John Cleese (described in an above post) perfecting the 'upper class twit' character - he didn't have to - he was one! Probably still is.

[Phil H]

Well louisa, if Cleese is an upper class "twit", he's a very clever one.

He has been associated with some very successful comedy series which have become classics (MP, FT, and films like Fish Called Wanda). He also revolutionised educational/training videos in the 80s.

As for Mr Bean, I'm not a fan, but have found myself laughing despite that. the turkey stuffing/Christmas one was highly inventive. But I think it's all in the manner of silent film - and has proved popular and saleable in almost every country globally (so I am told).

I couldn't understand Charlie Chaplin for years (still don't like the Little Tramp character) but then saw A King in New York, and realised how brilliant he was at non-verbal comedy. Scenes involving a revolving door and later a fire-hose are amazing.

Robert - I think your version of the MM joke is probably correct. It's "clean" in the sense of no explicitly dirty words, but smutty for those who "get" the meaning. That, I think (he was before my time) was his style. Risque and "near the knuckle" but within the spirit of the law, as it were.

Phil

[Robert]

Yes Phil, I think it was always desirable to have the innocent interpretation as one option. It was actually funnier that way.

[louisa]

I have to disagree with the idea that Max Miller would include this kind of smut in his act.

The expression to 'toss off' wasn't even part of the English language until comparatively recently. Nobody in those days would have understand what he meant.

I think you are doing old English comedy an injustice, and Max Miller in particular. What was considered 'risque' in those days would be classed as very tame by today's standards and for anyone to refer to masturbation (even obliquely) on stage would have been taboo, in the extreme. It would have meant the end of his career. Remember - ladies made up part of the variety audience too.

[Robert]

Maybe it was the whole joke that Roy Hudd denied took place. I think he denied the block passage/toss off version at least.

[Phil H]

I was sure I'd heard the gag either in a clip of MM doing it or in a re-enactment by a modern actor. I have always thougfht it genuine.

Personally i don't think there was any need to disect the joke in such explicit terms either - the original used NO dirty words.

If you didn't understand the references, it still made perfect sense.

Moving on...

To mention a few other British classics

What about BRIEF ENCOUNTER (Celia Johnson and Trevor Howard). Another David Lean, Noel Coward project. IMHO an almost perfect film.

Anyone else like Carol Reed's THE THIRD MAN (Orson Welles, Trevor Howard - again)? VERY atmospheric.

Phil H

[Robert]

"Brief Encounter" as a love story wasn't really my cup pf tea, but I seem to remember a lot of Rachmaninov in there, so that helped.

"The Third Man" was great stuff. I don't normally have a very good visual memory but Wells's first appearance, and then later his fingers grasping at the night air, are firmly imprinted.

[Beowulf]

I kind of like Copper, on BBC. Was wondering if anyone else is watching this?

Find it interesting that Charles Laughton was married to Elsa Lancaster. Even though both were committed there were no congugal visits

Both great actors. How he would've play Claudius intrigues me. Very different from Jacobi's I guess. I really loved the way John Hurt portrayed Caligula, sympathetic, made you love Caligula, and that's saying a lot.

[Phil H]

Laughton had problems with Claudius.

Mind you, he agonised over every role - Bligh, Quasimodo etc. (Simon Callow did an excellent, sympathetic biography of him some years ago.)

He found his inspiration for Claudius in a recording of Edward VIII's abdication speech, of all things.

It is a very sympathetic performance, from the surviving scenes. The stammer is made much of - those blubbery lips fitting exactly; and the limp is quite pronounced.

One scene, in the Senate has the line: " I Clau...Clau...Claudius (pause) will teach you (pause) how to fra...me your laws" (last two words almost in a rush). I think Laughton must have studied a real person with a stammer.

The sets were huge - Dirk Bogarde says that, as an art student at the time, he was taken to see the sets.

Emlyn Williams played Gaius Caligula, and there is a scene in the Seanatewhere he introduced his horse, Incitatus(?) as consul. the horse is out of shot, but Williams plays the part as quietly sinister and threatening.

Phil H

[Rubyretro]

I liked Bob Monkhouse ! (I don't have time to read back all the thread to see if someone has quoted him already )

my fave : "People laughed when I said that I wanted to be a Comedian....well, they're not laughing now.."

[Phil H]

I disliked Monkhouse for YEARS.

Then I heard him talk about his approach to comedy and my opinion totally changed.

He was a VERY remarkable comedian/actor/writer.

I'll add more tomorrow. Too tired now.

Phil H

[martin wilson]

Monkhouse,too many game shows and a criminal waste of a great talent imho,I cant remember when I saw it but he presented an award show once and he was wonderfully acid and funny.
There was a piece in the Independent years ago about the circuits that entertainers used to go on as their bread and butter away from telly, I remember the writer saying something like 'no matter where you go,nobody has a bad word to say about Bob Monkhouse'.so it seems he was a decent bloke as well.
Tommy Cooper of course, and Morecambe and Wise, timeless,my daughter loved watching the repeats,she thought they were brilliant, if you dont find the Andre Preview sketch funny I feel sorry for you.
'The introduction is too short,by about 3 feet'
And thats old fashioned in a country where comedy consists of sitcoms which are all swearwords and crude sexual references,or panel shows where comedians are just snarky,and unfunny.
All the best.

[Robert]

Yes, too many comedians waste their time on game shows. The only one who gets away with it in my book, is Forsyth. He's been the games master going all the way back to "Beat The Clock."