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Not so much the end of the beginning?

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  • #16
    Hi Dave

    I think Barbarossa was always Hitler's aim. It happened a few weeks later than he wanted - owing to his need to rescue the buffoon Mussolini.

    Hitler doesn't seem to have been concerned to play divide and rule in the USSR. He just goes blundering in and, by the cruelty of the German troops, has the whole country against him.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
      The switch from bombing airfields to bombing London ended the realistic possibility of invasion, but the war was still winnable for Germany at that point. The two dates which decided the outcome of the war, in my opinion, were 22nd June 1941 & 7th December the same year (Barbarossa & Pearl Harbor respectively).

      Regards, Bridewell.
      Yes. But winning a war isn't just about strategy. It's about attitude. I think Dunkirk was the moment the ordinary British citizen got the necessary attitude. It was no longer this thing happening to other people far away, it involved ordinary British Citizens stepping up and doing what was quite frankly mad. This was the first rally. "Dunkirk Spirit" is used to this day. This is where Britain starts to fight. Not just send soldiers, or support the troops, or hope for the best whenever they think about it. This is the first punch thrown by the British Nation, as opposed to to the British Army. Without this, I don't think people would have made it through the Blitz. I don't think they would have given up so much. But at Dunkirk, humble British boats beat the Nazis and saved lives. And the little ships inspired the English to sacrifice, and to survive.

      In others words, it's not a "Oh no you didn't!" moment like the bombing of the East End. It's a "Si Se Puede" moment.
      The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Errata View Post

        Yes. But winning a war isn't just about strategy. It's about attitude
        Interestingly that is a very continental European perspective - particularly a German perspective.

        It's no coincidence that people such as Clausewitz, Nieitzsche, Freud were borne out of Central Europe - a human centric version of events.

        The Germans have found out to their cost that 'attitude' is one small cog in a wider wheel of know-how required to win a war.

        In a close run thing, what is required is:

        a) Finance.
        b) Friends.
        c) An effective fighting force.
        d) A valuable propaganda machine.

        The Germans were the most effective fighting unit on the Western Front by a long stretch, but didn't appreciate that the right friends come in handy. Although they did appreciate the need for a guaranteed supply of money - they simply didn't have it and couldn't obtain it.

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