Dyatlov Pass incident

[c.d.]

Yes, it was histories greatest mysteries from The History Channel.

No, no one is arguing that the alleged KGB agent killed them since he was killed as well. It has more to do with missile testing or some other types of weapons and a cover up by the government.

c.d.

[Ms Diddles]

hey diddles
i think it was histories greatest mysteries from the history channel. i think its a pretty good series, the somerton man one is good too.
imho i think they got trapped in their tent from avalanch and or snow build up which was collapsing their tent and made them panic to get out which is why they cut there way out. once that tent was destroyed they were finished. only a matter of time until they froze to death. the ones that had blunt force trauma fell into a rocky ravine and the other gruesome injuries was from animal predation. not much of a mystery to me. i dont buy the kgb dude killed them angle. at all.

Thanks Abby / c.d.!

I'll have a look and see if I can find that documentary.

When I first heard about the case, my initial reaction was that it had to be an avalanche, but having read a bit more about it and done some pondering, I'm not so sure.

From what I initially read, the area was not known for avalanches and the gradient wasn't steep enough, although I believe a new study last year (or 2020) contradicted this.

This still doesn't explain why a bunch of experienced hikers would choose a spot where there was an avalanche risk to camp, or why the contents of the tent showed no signs of disarray. I seem to recall that there were plates of food laid out as though the hikers had been eating.

Also wouldn't such experienced hikers know to run horizontally out of the path of an avalanche rather than vertically downhill?

TBH I read that somewhere!

I'm not exactly known for my outdoor / survivalist skills, much preferring a nice comfortable hotel room to a tent out in the elements, so I'm probably not the best person to pontificate about what to do in an avalanche!

Still, something smells off about this one to me!

[spyglass]

Hi all,
I have followed this mystery for about ten years now.

When I first came across it, I too felt "How Wierd "

But since then, I have read quite a bit about it and there are really quite a few reasonable explanations...even for the weird stuff.
The only real question being why they left the tent in a panic, but an Avalanche seems to be a real possibility.
I suggest scouring the internet, their is plenty of stuff out there, even some really morbid photos that I accidentally came across.

Regards

[C. F. Leon]

The show also announced that as a result of the new found documents the Russian government is reopening the case.

c.d.

They probably blame it on time-traveling Ukrainian Nazis...

[c.d.]

They probably blame it on time-traveling Ukrainian Nazis...

Apparently there is a supposedly authentic government document that shows that a search party was dispatched before the party was reported missing which if true is very strange and very suspicious.

c.d.

[Ms Diddles]

Apparently there is a supposedly authentic government document that shows that a search party was dispatched before the party was reported missing which if true is very strange and very suspicious.

c.d.

Yeah, c.d.!

That information has been kicking around for a wee while.

I'm working from memory here, but I think there is an episode of "Expedition Unknown" where they show that document and discuss it.

I'm pretty sure I've seen it mentioned in other books and docs too.

It seems to be generally dismissed as a mere typo, but personally I agree it's strange!

[String]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03/confirmed-avalanche-is-likeliest-explanation-for-tragic-dyatlov-pass-incident/

[Ms Diddles]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022...pass-incident/

Interesting, String!

Thanks for posting.

This certainly seems to confirm the recent study.

If an avalanche is indeed a physical possibility, it has to be considered the most likely explanation by a country mile.

It's weirdly anti-climactic though, as it still leaves loose ends hanging.

- The fact that the tracks of foot prints down the hill appeared to be in an orderly fashion, with no signs of running or any injured parties being dragged or carried.

- The bodies found in the ravine were wearing bits of clothing torn from the outfits of the guys found at the tree, the inference being that the tree guys perished first so the survivors took the items for warmth and died later.

- The bodies in the ravine had sustained by far the worst injuries (fractured skulls, broken ribs etc) so would have been highly unlikely to have been moving around in such a condition (ie from tent to tree to ravine which IIRC is not an inconsequential distance in such conditions)

I suppose the most likely sequence of events is something like:

There is an avalanche / sounds that an avalanche is brewing and the group cut their way out of the tent and move downhill quickly but in an orderly fashion out of harms way.

They light the fire to try and keep warm and climb the tree to obtain firewood.

Two of them succumb to hypothermia there.

Three of the others try to make it back to the tent and die of hypothermia on the way.

The other four head off in another direction and fall in the ravine, therefore sustaining the injuries at this point (rather than during the avalanche and flight).

Does that work?

I don't know.

Would a fall in the ravine result in such dreadful injuries? I'm sure I recall them described as being akin to what one would see if someone was hit by a truck. (IMO indicative of injuries sustained in an avalanche, but then I find it hard to believe that these injuries would have been unapparent in the tracks, or that they could have covered so much ground and outlasted the tree guys).

Nor does it explain why the contents of the tent didn't show signs of avalanche either (but maybe that was incorrect).

I would just love to see a complete narrative which explains all elements of this incident.

I'm resigned to the fact that is highly unlikely to happen though!

[Ms Diddles]

Bumping this to avoid clogging up Herlock's book recommendation thread.

Looking back at the posts above, it is apparent that I am somewhat inconsistent with my avalanche theorising!!

I'd posted #68 in the hope that someone would pick holes in my theory, but nobody took the bait and it passed unremarked.

Any takers?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Bumping this to avoid clogging up Herlock's book recommendation thread.

Looking back at the posts above, it is apparent that I am somewhat inconsistent with my avalanche theorising!!

I'd posted #68 in the hope that someone would pick holes in my theory, but nobody took the bait and it passed unremarked.

Any takers?

Great minds think alike. I was just about to kickstart this thread for the same reason Ms D.

……

I’d like to mention the cuts in the tent.

A Seamstress claimed that the cuts had been made from the inside and the Sverdlovsk Research Crime Lab confirmed her opinion. They don’t sound like cuts just to open (or tear open) the wall of the tent in an attempt to get out though. Also, there were to exits from the tent and neither of them were blocked with snow so why the need to cut their way out? The arrangement of the items within the tent also seems to point away from any kind of struggle or any frantic attempt at escape? There were just no signs of disturbance inside the tent. The explanation that Anderson comes up with (whilst not favouring her entire theory) seems quite plausible. That whoever did it did it to render the tent useless as protection against the elements. Obviously there will be other theories but it’s difficult (for me at least) to come up with another reasonable explanation. Additionally, one of the hikers, George, was in possession of a ‘Finnish knife’ which had a long, sharp blade. Regular citizens needed permission to carry one at the time. Wouldn’t this knife have been capable of cutting through the canvas of a tent to effect an escape?

[Joshua Rogan]

Bumping this to avoid clogging up Herlock's book recommendation thread.

Looking back at the posts above, it is apparent that I am somewhat inconsistent with my avalanche theorising!!

I'd posted #68 in the hope that someone would pick holes in my theory, but nobody took the bait and it passed unremarked.

Any takers?

#68 sounds very plausible to me, Ms D.
Except perhaps the initial avalanche theory, which seems to have it's detractors. Notably this chap;

https://dyatlovpass.com/borzenkov

[Kattrup]

Still surprised this is being discussed as a mystery, frankly.
Everything is consistent with hypothermia in extreme weather conditions, following a group panic or anxiety perhaps or probably caused by some sort of impending avalanche or fear thereof.
The various “inexplicable” “facts” turn out to be speculation by dubious witnesses years after the event or just unconfirmed rumours.

No offense! Just wondering how this tragic event got elevated to UFO/KGB/Area 51 status

Was the crew of the Mary Celeste killed by kgb double agents too? No, they just abandoned ship and perished after which weather conditions changed and the ship sailed on.

[Ms Diddles]

Still surprised this is being discussed as a mystery, frankly.
Everything is consistent with hypothermia in extreme weather conditions, following a group panic or anxiety perhaps or probably caused by some sort of impending avalanche or fear thereof.
The various “inexplicable” “facts” turn out to be speculation by dubious witnesses years after the event or just unconfirmed rumours.

No offense! Just wondering how this tragic event got elevated to UFO/KGB/Area 51 status

Was the crew of the Mary Celeste killed by kgb double agents too? No, they just abandoned ship and perished after which weather conditions changed and the ship sailed on.

Absolutely no offence taken, Kattrup!

Dashing out now.

I'll respond when I have more time......

[Joshua Rogan]

I’d like to mention the cuts in the tent.

A Seamstress claimed that the cuts had been made from the inside and the Sverdlovsk Research Crime Lab confirmed her opinion. They don’t sound like cuts just to open (or tear open) the wall of the tent in an attempt to get out though. Also, there were to exits from the tent and neither of them were blocked with snow so why the need to cut their way out? The arrangement of the items within the tent also seems to point away from any kind of struggle or any frantic attempt at escape? There were just no signs of disturbance inside the tent. The explanation that Anderson comes up with (whilst not favouring her entire theory) seems quite plausible. That whoever did it did it to render the tent useless as protection against the elements. Obviously there will be other theories but it’s difficult (for me at least) to come up with another reasonable explanation. Additionally, one of the hikers, George, was in possession of a ‘Finnish knife’ which had a long, sharp blade. Regular citizens needed permission to carry one at the time. Wouldn’t this knife have been capable of cutting through the canvas of a tent to effect an escape?

I'm not sure I understand your thinking here, Herlock.

You say that the cuts were confirmed to have been made from the inside, and that one of the party had a sharp knife. Yet then conclude that the cuts were not made by any of the group, despite the complete absence of any ski or foot trails in the area, other than those presumed to be made by the hikers themselves. What makes you think that?

In the statement of Vadim Brusnitsyn, the chap in charge of the search party which found the tent, he even says the cuts were made by Georgiy's Finnish knife, along with the branches cut for the fire at the treeline. Though quite how he determined this isn't stated (presumably an assumption as this was the only knife found).

He also says that the tent wasn't excavated very carefully and it was hard to determine what state the contents were in;

"Snow was cleared with the help of skis and ski poles. Ten people worked without any system. In most cases things everything was pulled out directly from under the snow, so it's very difficult to determine where and how each thing was.

First they took out several blankets, frozen in a ball, then buckets, a stove, 2-3 sacks of rusks, boots, etc. The things in the tent were arranged in the following order. At the bottom were laid rucksacks. Then 2-3 blankets. Next were the quilted jackets and personal belongings of the participants. Buckets, stove, ax, saw were lying at the entrance to the right. Here was part of the products: rusks, sugar, condensed milk, open bag with a loin. The rest of the products were in the far right corner. Most of the shoes lying were placed on the left side of the tent. Two pairs - right in the middle. [B)The rest of the things were in disarray in the tent.[/B]"

In case you haven't seen it, this also comes from the dyatlovpass.com website, which seems to have all the documentary evidence scanned, and translated into English. Which is helpful. It even has a diagram of the tent cuts, and close-up photos of them.

[Abby Normal]

Still surprised this is being discussed as a mystery, frankly.
Everything is consistent with hypothermia in extreme weather conditions, following a group panic or anxiety perhaps or probably caused by some sort of impending avalanche or fear thereof.
The various “inexplicable” “facts” turn out to be speculation by dubious witnesses years after the event or just unconfirmed rumours.

No offense! Just wondering how this tragic event got elevated to UFO/KGB/Area 51 status

Was the crew of the Mary Celeste killed by kgb double agents too? No, they just abandoned ship and perished after which weather conditions changed and the ship sailed on.

agree. its no great mystery to me. they fled the tent in a panic, cutting there way out (perhaps the opening was blocked/zipper frozen by snow)when there tent was being crushed by snow buildup, either by blizzard and or slab avalanche. once they left the tent they were essentially done for and most froze to death. the ones with traumatic injuries fell into a rocky ravine. the other injuries, eyes tongue etc, was from animal predation.