Dyatlov Pass incident

[Ms Diddles]

It's ages since I read it, but I remember quite liking the McCloskey book.

I can't recall what theory he was pushing now though.

I might check that out to remind myself.

Anyway, it'll be a walk in the park after the last offering!

[barnflatwyngarde]

If you ever feel like reading another (intelligible!) book on the subject, I'd say give the McCloskey one a go.

I don't blame you if you never want to read or think about the subject ever again though!

In the words of Tom Waits, " You must be reading my mail."

[Herlock Sholmes]

If you ever feel like reading another (intelligible!) book on the subject, I'd say give the McCloskey one a go.

I don't blame you if you never want to read or think about the subject ever again though!

I might do that Ms D. I’ll put it onto my list of ‘books to get.’

[Ms Diddles]

Hi Abby,

Theres no doubt that the authors knew their subject all ends up. They’ve clearly lived and breathed the case for years so there has to be at least a chance that they might have gotten it right but…. as Barn and Ms D have both said the book should have been passed onto someone before hand who, a) had a better grasp of the English language, and b) would knew a readable book when they read one. A real wasted opportunity as, apart from the solution which is always going to be debatable, this book should have been the ‘Bible’ of the subject.

If you ever feel like reading another (intelligible!) book on the subject, I'd say give the McCloskey one a go.

I don't blame you if you never want to read or think about the subject ever again though!

[Herlock Sholmes]

it sounds like the time i bought a book that was called the definitive history of Rock and roll. so full of meaningless and obscure details that I couldnt make out what the relevance was, so boring-i only got to the third chapter.
Im not sure how anyone could take such a fascinating subject like the history of rock and roll or the Dyatlov pass mystery and make it so boring and incomprehensible.

Its got to be a special skill.

Hi Abby,

Theres no doubt that the authors knew their subject all ends up. They’ve clearly lived and breathed the case for years so there has to be at least a chance that they might have gotten it right but…. as Barn and Ms D have both said the book should have been passed onto someone before hand who, a) had a better grasp of the English language, and b) would knew a readable book when they read one. A real wasted opportunity as, apart from the solution which is always going to be debatable, this book should have been the ‘Bible’ of the subject.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,
No "special skill"involved in relation to the Dyatlov Pass book!
Just the dumb decision to let a computer translate and proof-read it.

garbage in. garbage out. sounds like the book has more than just translation problems. lol

[barnflatwyngarde]

it sounds like the time i bought a book that was called the definitive history of Rock and roll. so full of meaningless and obscure details that I couldnt make out what the relevance was, so boring-i only got to the third chapter.
Im not sure how anyone could take such a fascinating subject like the history of rock and roll or the Dyatlov pass mystery and make it so boring and incomprehensible.

Its got to be a special skill.

Hi Abby,
No "special skill"involved in relation to the Dyatlov Pass book!
Just the dumb decision to let a computer translate and proof-read it.

[Abby Normal]

Hahahaha!

Unfortunately, I didn't even understand it enough to be able to make that assessment, Abby!!

That would have required some basic comprehension on my part!

it sounds like the time i bought a book that was called the definitive history of Rock and roll. so full of meaningless and obscure details that I couldnt make out what the relevance was, so boring-i only got to the third chapter.
Im not sure how anyone could take such a fascinating subject like the history of rock and roll or the Dyatlov pass mystery and make it so boring and incomprehensible.

Its got to be a special skill.

[Ms Diddles]

Hi Miss D,

The authors mention the Mansi at regular intervals throughout the book, but with no real suggestion that they were involved.

I do remember the point being made that if they were in any way involved with the deaths, they would simply have refused to help in the search.
Also, what was the motive for the Mansi to attack the group?
It's not as if they were carrying valuables, or plentiful supplies of food and provisions.

After that trial by fire, I'm off to wallow in a"cozy" crime mystery.
I deserve it.

You do indeed deserve it after that, Barn!

Yeah, I don't for a minute think that the Mansi were involved.

I just don't have a clue why the authors included all that stuff about the brothers who were perhaps part of the search, but maybe not.

It sounded like it was revving up towards some conspiracy theory then (if my understanding is correct) went absolutely nowhere.

I was trying to figure out whether that had any relevance to the theory at all.

I'm guessing not.

Puzzling!!!!

[barnflatwyngarde]

Indeed, Barn!

It is like the three of us have been through a traumatic front-line combat or hostage situation together, and emerged safely blinking into the light with little recollection of what just transpired!

It sounds like we are all very much singing from the same hymn sheet, and I agree with your points above.

I'm also confident that the tensions within the group did not play a significant role in what happened.

I for one will not be reading any more books published by Amazon!!

When I originally saw this book, it appeared to be unavailable in English, so I almost bought it in German!

I fear I would have lost my mind trying to read all that badly translated Soviet and scientific terminology in what is very much my second language these days!

I barely understood it in English!

I actually think that there MIGHT be a fairly credible theory in there somewhere, but I have no way of assessing this as I just can't understand the book enough to follow the theory in enough detail to say.

Did you pick up on any of the Mansi stuff?

I have no idea what that was all about and I'd quite like to know....

Well done though, buddy, you made it through!!!!

Filby - You're our last beacon of hope here. Any idea what that was all about?????

Hi Miss D,

The authors mention the Mansi at regular intervals throughout the book, but with no real suggestion that they were involved.

I do remember the point being made that if they were in any way involved with the deaths, they would simply have refused to help in the search.
Also, what was the motive for the Mansi to attack the group?
It's not as if they were carrying valuables, or plentiful supplies of food and provisions.

After that trial by fire, I'm off to wallow in a"cozy" crime mystery.
I deserve it.

[Ms Diddles]

As you know by now Ms D I’m not the easiest person to convince of a cover up. They happen of course but it’s often far too easy to go down that route by being signposted by what are actually simple errors. That said, if any country was going to cover up something like this it would be Soviet Russia.

Couldn’t a falling tree have simply been explained as a result of an extreme wind? How many would they have had to have silenced? The Mansi being the case in point, as you say, of course. These guys are the Sherlock Holmes’s of the region and would have been able to point out the tracks of a bear with a limp. I remember the Aussie backpacker case and the arrest of Bradley Murdoch. Joanna Lees said that she ran into the outback and hid behind a bush which she pointed out to the police who bought in Aborigine trackers. They said that no way had anyone hid behind that bush. So could they have fooled the Mansi or forced them to keep quiet? I don’t know.

The part about the Mansi brothers was totally unclear. A symptom of the entire book. This might be in the running to win the ‘most disappointing book’ award. The research was there. The knowledge was there. But the writing skills were close to non-existent. I’ve read more readable instruction manuals.

Maybe Barn or Filby had better luck but as neither of them were born in Soviet-era Russia as far as we know I doubt it.

Sorry!

Just saw the bit about "couldn't a falling tree be explained as a result of an extreme wind?"

100% agree.

There were blizzards at the time I believe, so that would likely have been the natural assumption (as opposed to geologists with strange oxygen explosions looking for uranium......).

[Ms Diddles]

hey guys
sounds like that book was a bunch of bs lol

Hahahaha!

Unfortunately, I didn't even understand it enough to be able to make that assessment, Abby!!

That would have required some basic comprehension on my part!

[Ms Diddles]

As you know by now Ms D I’m not the easiest person to convince of a cover up. They happen of course but it’s often far too easy to go down that route by being signposted by what are actually simple errors. That said, if any country was going to cover up something like this it would be Soviet Russia.

Couldn’t a falling tree have simply been explained as a result of an extreme wind? How many would they have had to have silenced? The Mansi being the case in point, as you say, of course. These guys are the Sherlock Holmes’s of the region and would have been able to point out the tracks of a bear with a limp. I remember the Aussie backpacker case and the arrest of Bradley Murdoch. Joanna Lees said that she ran into the outback and hid behind a bush which she pointed out to the police who bought in Aborigine trackers. They said that no way had anyone hid behind that bush. So could they have fooled the Mansi or forced them to keep quiet? I don’t know.

The part about the Mansi brothers was totally unclear. A symptom of the entire book. This might be in the running to win the ‘most disappointing book’ award. The research was there. The knowledge was there. But the writing skills were close to non-existent. I’ve read more readable instruction manuals.

Maybe Barn or Filby had better luck but as neither of them were born in Soviet-era Russia as far as we know I doubt it.

Yeah, I don't think the Mansi would have been fooled by a staged scene.

Bribed or blackmailed into silence, maybe, but I think they would have read the signs and tumbled to the set up.

Indigenous people who rely on the land always have enormous insight into their environment. They need to have to ensure survival in really hostile environments.

It reminds me a bit of the Franklin expedition where the Inuit pretty much knew the score, but nobody listened to them.

I should really read that Mansi bit yet again, but I just can't face it.....!!

[Abby Normal]

hey guys
sounds like that book was a bunch of bs lol

[Ms Diddles]

A weary and confused Barn reporting in from the pass.

What a bloody slog this book was!

I have read several books on the Dyatlov Pass incident, but none of them really helped me in wading through this book.
I agree with you Miss D, that the tree suddenly popping up a few pages from the end was very, very strange indeed. The only connection to a tree that I can remember being mentioned, was the fact that some pine needles were found on one of the corpses. Not too unusual, you might think on the edge of a forest!

A few thoughts in general.

1. There was clearly some tension within the group, but I am not convinced that any tensions within the group contributed to the tragedy.

2. The terrain was incredibly hostile, the weather conditions were terrible, and the distances covered by the group on a daily basis must have been energy sapping.

3. Russian bureaucracy undoubtedly contributed to the many mistakes made in the search and recovery missions.

4. Before the "magic tree" appeared, my feeling is that all the relevant evidence points to a slow movement of snow, not quite an avalanche, that pushed against the tent forcing the group to cut the tent from inside and clamber out.

Now to the main problems with the book. I was puzzled at first by the very many clumsy mistranslations that litter the book. I was also puzzled that any publisher would agree for a book to be published, presumably after being proof-read several times, with so many examples of strangled english.

I checked who actually published the book............and right there was the answer!
On the last page of the book are the words "Printed in Great Britain by Amazon".
I remembered seeing these words fairly recently in another book which had a very high number of typos and other glaring mistakes.
It was in Rob Clack's excellent book "Jack the Ripper: The Scenes of Crime".

I can only assume that when a book is printed by Amazon, it is "proof-read" by machine!
There can be no other explanation for the many typos etc in both books.
No Proof-Reader worth their salt would let so many errors slip through.

So these are my rambling thoughts on the book.

There is always a weird sense of achievement when you make it to the end of a "difficult" book, and this book is up there with some of the most "difficult" books I have ever tackled. And I confess that if I didn't have fellow travellers who were reading it with me, I may very well have packed it in before finishing it.

Well done fellow travellers! I feel that we have a bond that will never be broken.

Indeed, Barn!

It is like the three of us have been through a traumatic front-line combat or hostage situation together, and emerged safely blinking into the light with little recollection of what just transpired!

It sounds like we are all very much singing from the same hymn sheet, and I agree with your points above.

I'm also confident that the tensions within the group did not play a significant role in what happened.

I for one will not be reading any more books published by Amazon!!

When I originally saw this book, it appeared to be unavailable in English, so I almost bought it in German!

I fear I would have lost my mind trying to read all that badly translated Soviet and scientific terminology in what is very much my second language these days!

I barely understood it in English!

I actually think that there MIGHT be a fairly credible theory in there somewhere, but I have no way of assessing this as I just can't understand the book enough to follow the theory in enough detail to say.

Did you pick up on any of the Mansi stuff?

I have no idea what that was all about and I'd quite like to know....

Well done though, buddy, you made it through!!!!

Filby - You're our last beacon of hope here. Any idea what that was all about?????