Olympics 2012 - the meaning of equality

[Chris Scott]

As we draw to the close of what has been, by anyone's standards, a successful Olympic games, it may seem mean spirited of me to mention one thing which still wrankles with me.
One of the most persistent messages in the UK media about the games has been how significant they have been for women and the profile of women in sport. I agree with and applaud that. But we never get the equality thing right, do we? One message that has been much trumpeted is that this is the FIRST Olympic games in which women have competed in ALL sports (as female boxing has been included this year for the first time).
So all is sweetness and light - now that means that both men and women can take part in any event they want to, right? Well, no actually. Women can, men can't. There are a number of sports, Olympic events, from which men are completely barred. And the Olympic Committee made it plain recently that they have no intention to remedy this any time soon.
One very unfortunate effect of this banning of male competitors is that one of the most talented groups of young people have been disbarred from taking part. A couple of years back the Britain's Got Talent TV show was won by avery talented group of gymnasts called Spelbound. The style of gymnastics they do is not just individual events but a merging of gymnastics and dance. It has a name. It is called Rhythmic Gymnastics. It is an Olympic event. Unfortunately it is an Olympic event from which male competitors are completely banned. And it is not the only one - synchronised swimming is also banned to male swimmers. In an unexplained comment a spokesperson for the Olympic Committse said recently he did not feel that synchronised swimming was "appropriate" for males to take part.
But it is considered appropriate for females to box - please explain the logic to me.
Chris

[Limehouse]

I completely agree Chris. I think any event that is deemed worthy of the Olympic Games should be open to all genders. It is unjust that so much talent goes unrecognised and uncelerated. Anything that gets people off their backsides doing things that keep them fit is to be encouraged.

[johns]

I agree too. I didn't realise that this was the case as I've only taken a passing interest in some of the sports at the Olympics, but it does seem wrong.

Also, why isn't Squash in the Olympic program? A worldwide sport surely.

[Chris Scott]

If you want to know the state of equality, then just read this from today's Daily Telegraph in an article about why rhythmic gymnastics is banned to males in the Olympics.
"Opinions were mixed among the women competing here at the London Games about whether men should be able to compete in the sport at the Olympics. Many were skeptical about the growth of the sport among men.
“I don’t think it would ever become anything too popular,” said Julie Zetlin, the lone American who competed individually at the London Games. “I think it should stick to a women’s sport. I think that in today’s society there are lots of different things for men and women, but I think it’s still better just for females.
“I think it’s just unique like that. I think rhythmic gymnastics should just stay a girl power sport.”

Rewrite the above but substitute boxing for gymnastics and women for men. Imagine the result.
If a male athlete was interviewed at the Games and said:
"I think it’s just unique like that. I think boxing should just stay a male power sport.”
He would be be pilloried as a rampant sexist - yet female athletes can support the exclusion of sports performers PURELY on the basis of their gender.
This is not equality - it is just the substitution of one form of sexism for another.

[Cogidubnus]

I was going to comment accordingly but you beat me to it...Spot on Chris!

All the best

Dave

[Jenni Shelden]

Hi Chris,

I agree. Its great to see women's boxing, but I dont think we should be applauding the fact that its included as some kind of major breakthrough when you consider HOW LONG IT TOOK. Are you telling me there were no women boxers worthy or able of competing at the Olympic Games in 2008, 2004, 2000, 1996 etc? Its hardly one for the sisterhood. For example our gold medal winning boxer Nicola Adams is 28, surely she would have been able to compete 4 years ago.

What you say about the gymnastics and synchro swimming is spot on also. Maybe, as with the artistic gymastics, it may be worthy of slight rule changes, although that said I cant see why. It would be like saying men couldnt do ballet dancing.

It is time everyone, especially women, realised what we were asking for was equality not superiority. We arent there yet in most things in life.

It is also worth remembering that whilst we might do the same sports we dont do the same disciplines, the walk is shorter, the boxing rounds are different, the artistic gymnastic disciplines are different.

To me as an athletics fan when we achieve equality over those events with the inclusion of the women's steeplechase showed a discipline of the Olympics with near equality (just the walks lengths to go)

Jenni

[Cogidubnus]

To me as an athletics fan when we achieve equality over those events with the inclusion of the women's steeplechase showed a discipline of the Olympics with near equality (just the walks lengths to go)

Hi Jenni

I do agree with most of what you say...but the steeplechase showing near equality? Check out the height of the jumps...

All the best

Dave

[Steven Russell]

Hi Jenni

I do agree with most of what you say...but the steeplechase showing near equality? Check out the height of the jumps...

All the best

Dave

No doubt this would be adjusted accordingly as is the height of the hurdles and vaulting horse.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi all. Where there is division, there is not equality. Equality will come when women and men compete against each other in these sports, based on INDIVIDUAL merits. When there are no men's/women's divisions, for instance, just boxing, or rhythmic swimming, and the teams are chosen based on the best INDIVIDUALS a country has to offer, then everyone can claim equality. Otherwise, it's the international sports equivalent of a whites only/colored only bathroom from 1955.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Supe]

I gained a certain new respect for events like dressage -- at least those competitors didn't have a lot of butt-ugly tattoos on display.

Don.

[Phil Carter]

have a look at past Olympics and events that are no longer deemed an Olympic event.
Apart from the standing jumps( high,long and triple) where the great Ray Ewry excelled taking 8 golds out of 8 events (plus 2 more in the inter collated-now unofficial games of 1906 in Athens)- there were some wonderful others down the years.
My favourite and the bugbear of many from the south of France, came in 1924.
Monaco have never officially won an Olympic Medal. Well, thats onlx because the bronze they won in 1924 has officially, along with the event it was won in, has been deleted from the official records.

The event? A physically demanding event of great stature in the sporting world.
Art.
Yes. Art....

The 1908 Olympics was a strange one. The track at the White City wasnt 400m. Oh no. It was 1/3 of a mile...the swimming and diving pool was in the centre.

when Lord Burley practiced for a hurdles race at home, he placed a glass of champagne on each hurdle in doing so tried to jump each hurdle cleanly.

Emil Zatopek is one of my sporting heroes. In Helsinki in 1952 he won the 10,000m and 5,000m in the classic double- just as Mo Farrah did tonight. The difference was that the NEXT DAY after the 5,000m he thought he'd have a go at the marathon! Oh, and he'd never run a marathon in his life, before that day...
So before the race he walked up to Jim Peters, the British favourite, and asked him if he could run with him. After 10km he asked Peters (they were leading) what he thought of the pace. "Too fast?" said Emil....Peters replied (meant as a joke) " No, too slow".
So Emil Zatopek turned up the pace.
The outcome? Peters sat at the side of the road exhausted, whilst Zatopek ran on. When he entered the stadium the whole crowd chanted "Zatopek, Zatopek, Zatopek" in non-stop harmony.
He won the race 6 minutes ahead of No.2.

Zatopek used to run when training in heavy boots. That way when he ran in running shoes on cinder tracks he felt light.
One last thing. His training, EVERY DAY, was 400m, ONE HUNDRED TIMES EACH DAY. Thats 40,000m Every day. A marathon is 42k or so...

Someone tried to copy this a few years ago, and gave up after a week,

a measure of the man was that he welcomed all to his home. When Ron Clark, the great Australian runner came along, he was made just as welcome
Clark had held both 5 and 10k world records but never won an Olympic Gold. As he left Clark at the airport, he handed Clark a memory of his visit. Clark hurried to the plane and not before he had taken off did he open the present..
It was one of Zatopek's gold medals.

Thats why the Olympics are special. Usain Bolt is the latest in a long line of sporting heroes.

Mo Farrah for the Marathon gold anybody? Nope- dont think so do you?

Best wishes

Phil

[Limehouse]

Thank you Phil. That was so inspiring.

[Chris Scott]

Thanks Phil for a great post which reignited thoughts of what the Olympics should be about.
Let me repeat that I have really enjoyed many moments of the 2012 Games and they have gone better and been much more enthusiastically received then I'm sure many thought they would.
Apart from the gender issue which prompted this thread, my only regret is that these Games have become completely media driven and it is obvious that part of the media agenda is to force these athletes into the mould of the airheads who make up our current "celebrity" culture.
It has been so refreshing to see sports performers - male, female, young, old - so proud of their sport and so dedicated to what they do, instead of the usual diet of talentless nonentities whose egos would fill the Albert Hall. After The Only way is Essex, Big Brother, Gypsy Weddings, The Bachelor etc etc etc to see someone with real talent and some degree of modesty and self control has been a revelation.
The media are determined to get their pound of flesh - they must interview the athlete IMMEDIATELY after they have finished a gruelling event while still breathless at the track side. Endless fatuous questions - "How does it feel to be a gold medallist?" - how do you THINK it feels??? Just let the men and women at least get their breath back and wind down before you insist on grilling them.
I know the intrusion of the media is inevitable but I can still regret its omnipresent seeking out the cheap emotionalism of the latest "blub" shot of an athlete shedding a tear.
Well done to all the athletes - every single one of them - even in events which I don't particularly enjoy. They have made 2012 a year to remember.

[mariab]

parity

In the sports that I'm personally engaged in and well-informed about (figure skating, freestyle snowboarding, wakeboarding, surfing) parity is more or less achieved, especially in the younger generations. Surfing competitions mixing men and women in which a woman has won have occurred in several circumstances. However, mixed official World Championships are not bound to happen any time soon due to tradition and to logistics/financial politics in sponsorship.
In several sports (like gymnastics, figure skating, female boxing in Europe) one has better options for a sponsorship and endorsements if they're female.
At some point in the near future (maybe in a decade or so) I would understand the need to unify the male/female ASP World Tour (in surfing) and the TTR Tour (in freestyle snowboarding).
I'm not sure I'd appreciate having men competing against women in figure skating in the Winter Olympics, as they often use distinctively different costumes/music (though many female figure skaters can pull it off using a more action-movie-like music and costume, such as the music from Jaws or Salt), plus it's cool to have 2 gold medalists instead of just one. There have been skating competitions for just jumps with both male and female participants, where Surya Bonaly, Irina Slutskaya, and the Jap girls were better than the guys.
Marathons, triathlons, cycling events run mixed, though I have no idea how good women are placing.
In real life, I'm creaming guys left and right in the maneuvers I'm good at (like snowboard jumps), and we're talking 18-24 year old competing pro/ams. Still, I prefer riding with Pros (both male and female) who are light years ahead of me so as to learn and get inspiration from them. It's the best way to progress, plus it's a honour to be spending time with them.
In other words: Don't generalize (every sport has a different, specific history), don't push it, give the girls half a chance, and things will develop by themselves.
Running the events separately does not obstruct from observing how quick women have evolved and approached parity in most sports. In the US, congress passed the Title IX legislation in 1972 only! Women are doing fine, considering.

[Chris Scott]

Hi maria
many thanks for your post which i read very carefully. I am very glad that the sports with which you are involved (and at which you are so good!) are dealing well with these issues.
However I stand by my original point.
I would just ask you to watch this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49cU7gtPIzM

Is it right that this group of talented and dedicated young people - who number winners of the World Championship among their male performers - can perform at and win the world championship of their own sport but are barred from performing at Olympic level because of the gender of some of their members?
I repeat my question that started this thread: ALL events in the Olympics are now open to women competitors. Not all events are open to male competitors. The only banning of competitors on the basis of gender (i.e. sexual discrimination) is against males. I ask again - is that equality?