Britain 2012?

[brummie]

So things in Britain have now come to the point where people have become so desperate they set fire to themselves. Chalk up another success for posh boy Cameron and his cronies.

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2012/06/29/desperate-jobseeker-sets-himself-alight-outside-selly-oak-jobcentre-97319-31284847/

While Cameron and his poodle Clegg happily sit in their comfortable houses spouting garbage like'We're all in it together' and demonising all the unemployed they have created as workshy scroungers,aided and abbetted by the gutter tabloids, people are left with no jobs,no money and no hope and driven to desperation. The lower end of the press written by and barely literate journalists are happy to focus on a handfull of cases of benefit cheats and build up the ignorance and prejudice for a cheap sensationalist headline the government has all the excuse it needs to slash benefits for those in need. At the same time of course corporations and wealthy individuals are allowed to get away with paying a tiny percentage of the tax they should be paying. The reward for this evasion is a tax cut!
The sad fact of this recession is that the poor and the average working tax payer have seen living standards eroded to breaking point while the rich and super rich have continued to get wealthier by the day. My fear is that as the gap between haves and have nothings widens to a chasm we can expect to see more of the rioting of recent times as a whole section of society grows increasing resentful.

[Rubyretro]

a) The man was clearly a nutter to set fire to himself. I can't think of anyone in their right mind who would set fire to themselves, however desperate -it is simply horribly painful and will leave terrible scars.

b) I expect that payments for everyone will be slower now, since they closed the building and telling people that they would be paid directly to their banks seems like a ploy to evacuate the building.

[louisa]

Brummie - while I sympathise with anybody who has lost his/her job through redundancy, I can also see the need for benefits to the able bodied to be cut.

There must be jobs around. Why else are the government bringing in foreign workers?

The reason is that people these days DO seem to be workshy. Why would they go to work when they can get money for nothing? When they are presented with a job it's always "It's too far from my home" or "the wages are rubbish" or "Its not in my field of expertise". Also, a lot of people don't want a job that gets their hands dirty. They say it's an insult to be offered work like this.

Well, they don't find it insulting to take money from people who are working do they?

[Robert]

Well, as for why the government are bringing in foreign workers, they are doing it for the same reason governments have always done it - to keep wages down.

[brummie]

I have no doubt that th vast majority see claiming benefits as a means of surviving in a broken economy,and are probably no happier taking money from working people than say MP's are fiddling expenses or bankers are happy to rake off millions in bonuses for for taking us all to the brink of collapse (with the added bonus of taking it off shore to pay as little tax as possible). It's just that benefits are an easy target, and plays well with the tabloid readership who swallow everything they are told, whereas we wouldn't want to upset the people using their vast wealth to donate to political parties would we?

[Robert]

Hi Brummie

Bit contemptuous of the tabloid readers, aren't you? They believe everything they're told? These are the working people you care so much for.

I don't think the gullibility of tabloid readers differs from that of any other group of readers. There are people who read The Guardian and believe everything they're told. But most people can read between the lines and make up their own minds.

[brummie]

Fair enough that was probably a bit harsh,and to use Parliamentary languge 'I withdraw that remark' but lets not under estimate the drip drip effect of having this stuff presented every day. Its a constant source of mystery to me how people complain about press standards and phone hacking then continue to buy the papers.Still with chaos in Syria,economic disaster in the Eurozone and continued fighting in Afghanistan when a paper devotes its front pages to Cheryl Coles latest dress people must judge for themselves.Hopefully they only buy it for the football and get their real news from 24hr rolling tv news.

[Robert]

Hi Brummie

If it makes you feel any better I don't vote for any party at all. I will not be lied to.

[brummie]

Don't think there much difference between parties when it comes down to it.One of the things that remains to be seen about the reform of the House Of Lords into a mainly elected chamber is whether those elections will also be along party lines.Any politician elected after all will be told by their leadership which way they are to vote, whether they agree or not.You have to wonder about the value of debates when only a few MP's turn up because they have already been told how they will be voting.

[brummie]

Sorry just in a particularly cynical mood at the moment.I shall go and have a lie down now.

[louisa]

Well, as for why the government are bringing in foreign workers, they are doing it for the same reason governments have always done it - to keep wages down.

Not just that, Robert, but people in this country don't want to work in low paid jobs.

Young people are leaving universities (nearly ALL school leavers go to universities these days) and start receiving benefits. This must seem like a fortune to a kid who has only ever received pocket money from his parents.

They seem to have some crazy ideals about the kind of work they want. It can't be dirty work, it can't be more than 20 miles away, it has to be in management and most of all, it can't pay poorly. A lot of them want jobs in music or show business.

You can see why they'd rather stay on benefits. After the 'three year party' (university) at taxpayer's expense they don't want the good times to stop rolling. They have found they can get along by doing very little.

It seems to me that if and when a youngster manages to become qualified in an academic subject, it's usually because he/she has professional parents who know the routes to follow.

[Cogidubnus]

Young people are leaving universities (nearly ALL school leavers go to universities these days) and start receiving benefits. This must seem like a fortune to a kid who has only ever received pocket money from his parents.

They seem to have some crazy ideals about the kind of work they want. It can't be dirty work, it can't be more than 20 miles away, it has to be in management and most of all, it can't pay poorly. A lot of them want jobs in music or show business.

You can see why they'd rather stay on benefits. After the 'three year party' (university) at taxpayer's expense they don't want the good times to stop rolling. They have found they can get along by doing very little.

It seems to me that if and when a youngster manages to become qualified in an academic subject, it's usually because he/she has professional parents who know the routes to follow.

To be fair I think this is a sweeping over-generalisation...in my firm I'm the cynical old hands-on professional, 37 years in the hotseat, who for the last 25 years has been handed the degree-level management trainees to whip into shape as regards commercial activities...and to this end I forget I do computers, I forget my long IT experience...I teach them the old fashioned manual way of doing things...I deconstruct...to see if they have the instincts, I challenge them to match me on my terms...many of those who've gone through my hands are now high-level managers, a couple are managing directors - I'm not claiming any credit for that (it's ALL theirs)...just making the point I can recognise a good prospect when I see it...

It may of course, only speak for the selection processes my firm employs, but you know something? The young men and women I get coming through now, are actually, on average, far, far, more motivated than those I encountered 25 years ago...I've just sent on the very best prospect I ever saw...a youngster with an allegedly "junk" degree but a terrific attitude, which I confidently believe will take him to the very top...to be fair he's not as well educated as those I saw 25 years ago, but in terms of determination and motivation he's far better...

Dave

[louisa]

That's encouraging, Dave. It's good to know that there are still good teachers around, and young people who truly want to learn and get on in life.