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  • Jimmy Carr

    Don't get me wrong. I don't like Carr. He's perfectly entitled to take advantage of any tax schemes that come his way, provided they're legal - but doing so while criticising the same shenanigans in others leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

    However, I think two points are worth making :
    1. Politicians should not criticise private individuals. It's a kind of abuse of power.
    2. Would it be too much to expect David Cameron to get off his backside and actually outlaw the schemes he affects to despise so much? I mean, he is drawing a salary? For doing a job?

  • #2
    politics

    Hello Robert. Funny you should mention, with respect to politics, that it:

    " . . . leaves a very bad taste in the mouth."

    If I recall properly, that was the reason given by Monica Lewinsky when she quit politics.

    Cheers.
    LC

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Robert View Post
      Don't get me wrong. I don't like Carr. He's perfectly entitled to take advantage of any tax schemes that come his way, provided they're legal - but doing so while criticising the same shenanigans in others leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

      However, I think two points are worth making :
      1. Politicians should not criticise private individuals. It's a kind of abuse of power.
      2. Would it be too much to expect David Cameron to get off his backside and actually outlaw the schemes he affects to despise so much? I mean, he is drawing a salary? For doing a job?
      Hear, hear! Don't hold your breath though. Cameron still hasn't convinced me that an "unequivocal cast-iron pledge" is something you can change your mind about.

      Regards, Bridewell.
      "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi All,

        Why are there are legal tax-avoidance schemes?

        Such legislation can only have been drawn up with avoidance in mind.

        Regards,

        Simon
        Last edited by Simon Wood; 06-21-2012, 06:32 PM. Reason: spolling mistook
        Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

        Comment


        • #5
          Indeed Simon I always suspect that when we hear of a "loophole," the loophole has been deliberately left by the MPs, lawyers and civil servants so that people including the MPs, lawyers and civil servants can benefit from it.

          I think there was a scheme reported recently whereby people were buying houses not as individuals but as companies. I think the object was to dodge stamp duty. Absurd.

          Comment


          • #6
            Robert - your post #1 expresses just what I feel about the subject - but additionally I'd add that Cameron's comments indicate that he condones the leaking of oficial government files which illegally breach the Official Secrets Act - viz the tax affairs of a private individual...and on this basis he should be compelled to resign.

            You may feel this is overstating the case but 40 years ago I was a Tax Officer and later a Tax Officer Higher Grade in the Inland Revenue and had to sign the Official Secrets Act purely to protect the interests of private taxpayers...I was told that if I EVER disclosed any private individual's tax details I could face imprisonment...In HMRC terms this is the biggest NO-NO there is!

            Dave
            Last edited by Cogidubnus; 06-21-2012, 10:33 PM. Reason: corrected minor typo

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Dave,

              In the interests of keeping you out of jail I won't ask a dozen-or-so obvious questions.

              Except perhaps one.

              How do I join this hallowed crowd whose patently crooked dealings are given a passing nod by the Inland Revenue?

              Do I have to sign a form, join a club, be second cousin to God, or simply have more money than I know what to do with stashed away at the Abbey National?

              Any advice would be appreciated.

              Regards,

              Simon
              Last edited by Simon Wood; 06-21-2012, 11:04 PM. Reason: spolling
              Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                Hi Dave,

                In the interests of keeping you out of jail I won't ask a dozen-or-so obvious questions.

                Except perhaps one.

                How do I join this hallowed crowd whose patently crooked dealings are given a passing nod by the Inland Revenue?

                Do I have to sign a form, join a club, be second cousin to God, or simply have more money than I know what to do with stashed away at the Abbey National?

                Any advice would be appreciated.

                Regards,

                Simon
                Hello Simon,

                Dont come and live in Norway. Every loophole is plugged. Even if you are dead.

                Best wishes

                Phil
                Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                Justice for the 96 = achieved
                Accountability? ....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Dave

                  I don't think the info came from anyone at HMRC. The final confirmation came from Carr himself or those around him, didn't it?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    And you think a politician whose party friends and financial supporters include well-known tax-avoiders (as opposed to evaders I hope) is in a position, legally, morally or otherwise to either confirm or comment?

                    Dave

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Dave

                      I don't think he confirmed. The story was already out there. It's not as though he said "I've just had a quick look at Carr's tax files and yes, he is doing this." As for the moral side, I've already said that I don't think politicians - certainly not PMs - should attack private individuals. It's an attempt to get law on the cheap - by intimidating people instead of actually changing the law. As for his rich backers, well I guess he's in no position to talk about it. It would be better if he just went ahead and changed the law. But we all know what will happen : another loophole will appear.

                      Osborne is the same. He affects surprise at all these goings-on. He's the Chancellor, it's his business to know what's going on.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        These type of tax loopholes are made lawful in the best of intentions. It's the public and special interests who applaud tax breaks for green investments, film & art funding, charity funding etc. Its no surprise these loopholes are taken advantage of by rich individuals and their accountants.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think that Carr has just as much right as any other citizen to take part in a financial scheme that is deemed under current legislation to be perfectly legal. The fact that he has included material in his act about tax evaders really is neither here nor there. He is a COMEDIAN - his job is to make people laugh, and the world he creates to do so is, like many comics, a fictitious and surreal one. He may be accused of hypocrisy, but that is not illegal. On the basis that he cannot make fun of tax avoidance as he is involved himself, presumably Jo Brand can no longer make jokes about fat people.
                          Cameron's comments about the Carr case were beyond his remit as a politician. For him to comment on the legal activities of a UK citizen in such terms is not only questionable but possibly defamatory. He said that Carr's use of this financial scheme was "legal but obviously wrong." Who is he to make that judgment publicly?
                          I can appreciate Carr's motives, as a publicly known person, for capitulating on this matter but I am also dismayed that he did so. By giving into the thought police and allowing what is essentially a private and legal financial arrangement be curtailed by a mob mentality sets an unhelpful precedent.
                          If Cameron and the political establishment are so outraged at these schemes which are legal but "wrong" then make them illegal. But to carp in public and hound individuals while these actions are perfectly legal should not be part of their political function.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Unfortunately another example of the hypocrisy that blights politics and politicians, Posh Boy Cameron thinks it ok to point out the tax dealings of Jimmy carr but when it comes to questions about Gary Barlow he considered it would not be apropriate to comment on individuals tax affairs.The difference of course is that Barlow, who has just been rewarded with an OBE (presumably One Big Ego), is a high profile supporter of the Conservative party. Cameron needs to be careful about how he draws attention to tax avoidance, something about glass houses? http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ens?CMP=twt_gu
                            Don't know how much Jimmy Carr is supposed to have avoided paying but as a lowly comedian it can only be a fraction of the billions that companys and the super rich are allowed to get away with. As has been pointed out earlier if Cameron is really so morally outraged as he pretends then get off your backside and close thes loopholes,but I suppose that might upset many of the Tory party donors.Much easier to continue the assault on the least well off members of society by demonising all the unemployed he has created and slashing benefits to finance tax cuts for his wealthy friends,and appeal to the tabloid readership at the same time.The same old story with every Tory Govt. look after the rich at the expense of the working class, sooner he goes the better.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Brummie, the thing is that regardless of what you, or I, or David Cameron says, Mr Carr himself has said that he was wrong. Let's take him at his word and assume that he really believes this, and that he isn't just making a cynical attempt to protect his popularity. Then it would follow, surely, that Mr Carr will be making arrangements to pay to the Treasury whatever money he saved through his membership of the scheme.

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