Pastor Urges Parents to "Man Up" and Punch Effeminate Children

[mariab]

One guy who brought up his kids was Cronos. Long time ago though.

You mean like, he brought them up AFTER the fact? As in, indigestion?

(Wonder how many people will get the pun.)

[Errata]

I still don't understand why "effeminate" boys have to be "fixed". What is the inherent problem? And what is the operating definition of effeminate? Plays with dolls? Care for personal appearance? Dislike of sports? What is effeminate? And what is so wrong with it that we are blaming parents and the school system for creating it, or nurturing it, or simply failing to quash it?

[Robert]

One guy who brought up his kids was Cronos. Long time ago though.

[Debra A]

I'd thumbs up this except for one bit...Men need to bring up their daughters too.

Well, that goes without saying, Ally. I only mentioned boys as they were the subject under discussion.

Why cant we target both?

You can, Jason. I was just suggesting a way that men could perhaps get more involved and help their own sex out with a situation some feel is detrimental to them...being brought up by a single woman.

[jason_c]

If the need is a male influence, we need to target absent fathers rather than blame single mothers?
Men...get your act together...think of a way to get these men to bring up their sons?!

Why cant we target both?

Absent fathers couldnt care less about there kids and single mums are happy enough living off the state.

[mariab]

And a lot more gays than there used to be, but that's the 'in' thing now.

You can't possibly think that sexual orientation is a matter of fashion?!

I completely agree about children's peageants etc., and the Ramsey case brought it up to the surface for the American public to see. There's been a similar condemnation of gymnastics and figure skating as "child abuse", but I disagree. These sports are super hard (MUCH harder than American football or ice hockey) and stressful, but it's still an amazing accomplishment.

Hope not to overstep my bounds by saying this Tom, but I'd never pegged you as raised by a single mother. Somehow I expected you to have been brought up by a real macho dad and a housewife, lol. In my childhood it was kinda similar, though my parents remained married (though for the most part leading their separate lives). From when I was a wee one, it was clear my dad was the one you could never rely upon. An actor, frequently depressed and unemployed, reading in bed until 3 a.m., sleeping until noon. He had an amazing book collection and had read just about everything, from Shakespeare to history to pulp fiction, and that was about it. You could hardly even talk to him, he was completely self-absorbed with his problems. My mom was the doctor, the one who took care of everything, pushed me into doing good in school, learning things (I guess she might have overdone it and created a monster, lol!). Plus my mom used to beat the sh*t out of me, up until about age 11 (when I started to rebel) I was completely terrified of her. I guess my family situation was kinda like in A tree grows in Brooklyn, only that my dad was not an alcoholic and half as much fun as Johnny Nolan, lol.

Before this thread gets all psycho-drama and a hug party, I happen to firmly believe that whatever one's parents were, one's bound to have been inflicted some kind of trauma. And maybe we should leave it at that.

[Tom_Wescott]

Sports, absentee fathers, and random stuff

I frankly don't understand sports, but I respect the fact that so many other people enjoy them. I'm more cerebral in my pursuits, and no doubt to some that might be 'effeminate'. I also had long hair most of my life and was a rocker during the glam era. But even I must say there are way too many wussy males coming up these days. Drop a frickin' ball already. And a lot more gays than there used to be, but that's the 'in' thing now.

Back to sports. Not to sound like a treehugger, but I'm bothered by any sport that involves animals, other than of course dog shows where they get petted, treated, and spoiled. But sports where some or all of the participants are not in it of their own free will is not cool. I also think this TV show 'Tiaras and Toddlers' or whatever is repulsive and sick. I recall back only 15 or so years ago to the JonBenet case and remember the nation's outrage at learning about these types of glamour shows with toddlers. Absolute outrage and condemnation. Now these same people support a weekly dose of it and cheer them on?

And yes, men need to take care of their kids. That's a fact. Even if the relationship with the mother dissolves, you're a complete and total loser for not being in the kid's life, teaching him things, and of course paying child support. My earlier comment was not meant to disparage single mothers. I was raised by one. My dad always paid his child support and had us down a few times a year, but once I turned 18, he never called again, no birthday cards, nothing. In fact, I don't believe I've seen him since I was in 8th grade. But total douche though he was, he lived up to his parental and legal obligations, so I don't see why so many others fail to do so.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

No problem, DrummondStreet.

I agree with the posters that say that fathers from broken families need to step up, spend more time with their children and provide that much needed male influence. However, it isn't always their fault. Courts usually give primary custody to the mother. As a result, fathers will have less time with their kids no matter how much they would like to be with them.

Absolutely. Though for many men with kids it's simply also convenient to be the secondary provider, and society excuses it easier than for a woman.
And let's not exaggerate about "broken homes". Is it worse for a kid to grow up with just one parent or with parents leading separate lives, esp. if the parent(s) in question are intelligent and doing good in their life, rather than grow up in a farm with mom and pops and grandma and grandpa and a bunch of animals?
Is there any non divorced family that isn't "dysfunctional" in their own way and haven't messed up their kids to some extent with their neuroses when bringing them up? There are tons of non-divorced families where the kids don't speak to one or both parents when they've grown up.
And as for "the much needed male influence", can this thing be really defined? What if the kid's dad is a nerd who never hit a ball in his life, or is on unemployment (esp. with the current financial crisis), and the mother's an accomplished athlete or a career woman, or both? The kid's gonna pick things accordingly from both parents' personalities and from their respective friends.
Anyway, gotta go, gender discussions bore me to death. ;-)

[DrummondStreet]

Hi Maria,

Thanks for the welcome. My response was mostly in jest; I'm actually amused by the gender confusion more than anything .


I agree with the posters that say that fathers from broken families need to step up, spend more time with their children and provide that much needed male influence. However, it isn't always their fault. Courts usually give primary custody to the mother. As a result, fathers will have less time with their kids no matter how much they would like to be with them.

**I assume that the posters ahead of me were referring to dead-beat dads and not the ones I just described. I just wanted to point out that divorce/custody contribute to the problem, too.

[mariab]

To Drummond Street:
Sorry for having mistaken your gender identity. Some peeps posting on this thread would take this as a compliment, esp. pertaining to your expected abilities on rising "non effeminate" kids. Lol. The thing is, I most certainly wasn't thinking about "gender" when reading/responding to your post. In my book, thinking too much about "gender" appears quite a bit neurotic. I say, just keep doing whatever feels good doing and live your life how you wanna live it without caring if other people find it "fitting" or "non fitting" to stupid stereotypes. And this includes your chocolate addiction. (Which I had no idea it was supposed to be a "female predilection", and incidentally I don't really share it.)
Welcome to casebook, DrummondStreet.

[Ally]

If the need is a male influence, we need to target absent fathers rather than blame single mothers?
Men...get your act together...think of a way to get these men to bring up their sons?!

I'd thumbs up this except for one bit...Men need to bring up their daughters too.

[DrummondStreet]

DrummondStreet sounds like he's right on this.

Thanks mariab. But why does everyone on here think I'm a guy? I am most definitely a woman; I have 2 X-chromosomes, ovaries, and "suffer" from a chocolate addiction.

Not trying to pick on you, maria --it's just that being mistaken for a dude has happened to me one too many times on this forum and it's making me a bit nervous.

[mariab]

DrummondStreet sounds like he's right on this. Unless we're talking rich single parents. Plus not all women are "girlie" by nature.
Conducting a mini-statistics on the 3 single mothers I know from my circle of friends: Single mother #1, seller for Armani at a Berlin mall: son super spoiled, she pays for his car at age 21 and can't afford a drink when she goes out. Son's doing an MBA and raps, lol. Single mother #2, a lawyer in Greece, rich from her parents: son super intelligent and already a computer nerd at 10. Could be called a bit "effeminate" or at least "nerdy", though he's gonna look real handsome when he grows up. Single mother #3, a teacher in Germany, in financial dire straits. 2 sons sorta macho (in a good way), attractive, big time into soccer and karate. Interestingly enough, their mother isn't into sports at all herself. Plus they can't stand their dad, who plays off all he makes in casinos. When he (forcibly) visits, they set off.
Guy I'm dating in Paris has 2 sons, but they live only part-time with him. They get along great. Too young to say if they're "effeminate".

I'm not interested in having kids, but if I had one (boy or girl) the poor creature would have had it real bad, lol. It would have to learn to surf, snowboard, wakeboard, skate, ice skate, cook, speak 4 languages, play several instruments just to keep up with the "family life". On the upside, it would have learned all that simply by hanging out with me, not required to pay a dime for a coach or teacher.

[Debra A]

If the need is a male influence, we need to target absent fathers rather than blame single mothers?
Men...get your act together...think of a way to get these men to bring up their sons?!

[DrummondStreet]

But too many kids these days are coddled far too much, and that's the parents fault. Of course, that might have to do with most kids being raised by single mothers.

Rubbish. Single mothers are far less likely to coddle their children than married parents. Single parents (dads or moms) simply don't have the time, energy, or resources to overindulge their children. No, I'm not a defensive single parent (or any parent) but a number of my friends have children. It's been my observation that the kids who are the most over-coddled live in two parent households.

I do agree with you that children are increasingly over-coddled and over-sheltered, however.