Jeremy Clarkson

[Adam Went]

Limehouse:

People can't campaign for freedom of speech and then come out and say "oh, but you still can't say this, this and this, because one is offensive to this group of people, this is offensive to that group of people" and so on....freedom of speech is freedom of speech.

Yes, there are limits to the decency of certain comments but in this case Clarkson's comments are so obsurd that anybody who takes them seriously needs their head checked. It's a typical knee-jerk reaction from people who don't understand the man and how he works.

I think the fact that Limehouse & Natalie have been probably the two most vehement critics of Clarkson illustrate my earlier point better than I could have ever hoped to do it myself. Go out and get yourselves a Top Gear DVD, watch half a dozen episodes and come back and see if your opinion of Clarkson's comments has adjusted at all.

Dr. Hopper....very well said.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Natalie Severn]

Listen Julie this chap calling himself Dr Hopper is the one writhing about with his underpants in a twist !
I joined in because I noticed he was trying to give you stick and I thought I would support you but why do we bother wasting our time? He and his pal only answer by twisting what is said......for example I did not say Jeremy Clarkson supported the Norwegian mass murderer- I said the Norwegian mass murderer supported Jeremy Clarkson which is totally different ----Clarkson calling on national television for the shooting and execution of peaceful marchers on November 30th can be taken seriously by such nutcases and its why people have to be careful about expressing such views in a language that can become lethal . An innocent,peaceful rally of 'left leaning' people in Norway turned into a shooting and execution spree by a chap who expressed himself in exactly those sort of terms.An East End Muslim preacher I seem to recall was jailed for using such language .
I certainly would not condone the use of such language on a TV channel-I don't care how spontaneously its claimed Clarkson used that language -he used it and it was known about beforehand so it could not have been all that spontaneous.
Two million people did come out on N30 and ofcourse , as always, certain right wing commentators will deny figures and diminish them as expected [ not all it has to be said-the Daily Telegraph and the Financial Times-are usually fairly reliable about such facts but usually figures are diminished like that very deliberately .

As for the economy this Dr Dick doesn't appear to have a single clue about capitalist economics-to generate growth people have to be able to spend and if they are impoverished by unemployment they can neither spend or generate growth and therefore national wealth.Capitalism was built on an anarchic market structure and it was paper betting in the stock exchange and the activities of inexperienced hedgefunders that did for it in 2008 ---read Soros---- Lemans went bust and the knock on effect combined with that of other irresponsible world bankers caused the crisis.Soros claims that had things been in the hands of more experienced financiers things woul;d not have got so out of hand.
But flatlining the economy is ridiculous. It just means that world wide ,the poor get poorer.Latest figures are that 25% of the United Kingdom's children are now officially below the poverty line.The previous labour government at least built schools and hospitals---though their borrowing didn't help I agree but heckers like- do you know what we have actually got into billion, if not trillion , pound debt over ? The trillions of pounds[/B] we have spent on Wars!One of them a war in Iraq that left a million dead because Blair insisted Sadam Hussain was sitting in his palace on top of a nuclear arsenal! But he wasn't! This same Sadam btw being the man we sold chemical weapons to when he attacked Iran for eight years!It all beggars belief.
Anyway I am done with arguing with Dr Dick and co
Cheers
N



And people are wrong if they think I am hard up----far from it actually.
Cheers,
N

[Limehouse]

Well illustrated Jason_c
What I really don't understand is the venom that is being poured on him (Clarkson), and as a consequence, anyone who dares to stand up for his right to say what he wants, and to point out the problems in logic. Who cares who he is friends with! like it actually matters, really. Those shouting the loudest, and here I am looking directly at Natalie Severn, are the just using this as a form of Class War... "hoi polloi versus the 1%". Dear God, if the hoi polloi are indeed anything like you, then I'm with the 1% as you term them. Just what are you jealous of? What is it that makes you dislike some people so much? We are all of different stripes politically, and I can think of no worse thing for the UK than having a left-wing government in power right now, spending money we don't have shoring up a bloated and diseased civil service. But you don't hear me calling for the flogging of people like you, do you?
Clarkson made a joke, that's what he does, now unbunch you knickers, get over it, and find the next thing to get angry about in your fantasy world of 'them versus us'. Oh, and have a look behind you to see who 'us' actually consists of... you and 21,000 other left-leaning fantasists all trying to sell each other copies of Socialist Worker. And please don't try and plead "3 million went on strike" rubbish - all the teachers I know are grown up enough to admit that they went shopping on the day in question, and actually have a grasp of economics that means they can understand that the country is virtually bankrupt, so the deal was better than they had expected (I know this to be a fact as both myself and my partner are, in fact, teachers).

This is a vicious attack on a poster who is doing what you value so greatly - expressing an opinion. You are the one spewing venom and throwing labels around.

You may well have gone shopping on the day of the strike - but this left-winger was actually in work preparing students for exams. And by the way - it wasn't just teachers and civil servants striking last week. There were school crossing patrol workers, classroom assistants, street cleaners and thusands of other low paid workers who have accepted lower wages in exchange for a pension that they have been paying into on the basis that it will provide a reasonably decent income when they retire. These people are being cheated.

The country is bankrupt - you say - and yet it can pay Clarkson millions - for what?

[Limehouse]

How do you feel about Unison calling for Clarkson to be sacked?

http://www.unison.org.uk/asppresspac...ew.asp?id=2544


btw well said DrHopper, the linking of Clarkson and Anders Breivik is pathetic.

Jason, to answer your question, I do not think it would be fair to sack Clarkson because the BBC knew in advance how he was going to answer the question and they had the chance to withraw the question.

[DrHopper]

Well illustrated Jason_c
What I really don't understand is the venom that is being poured on him (Clarkson), and as a consequence, anyone who dares to stand up for his right to say what he wants, and to point out the problems in logic. Who cares who he is friends with! like it actually matters, really. Those shouting the loudest, and here I am looking directly at Natalie Severn, are the just using this as a form of Class War... "hoi polloi versus the 1%". Dear God, if the hoi polloi are indeed anything like you, then I'm with the 1% as you term them. Just what are you jealous of? What is it that makes you dislike some people so much? We are all of different stripes politically, and I can think of no worse thing for the UK than having a left-wing government in power right now, spending money we don't have shoring up a bloated and diseased civil service. But you don't hear me calling for the flogging of people like you, do you?
Clarkson made a joke, that's what he does, now unbunch you knickers, get over it, and find the next thing to get angry about in your fantasy world of 'them versus us'. Oh, and have a look behind you to see who 'us' actually consists of... you and 21,000 other left-leaning fantasists all trying to sell each other copies of Socialist Worker. And please don't try and plead "3 million went on strike" rubbish - all the teachers I know are grown up enough to admit that they went shopping on the day in question, and actually have a grasp of economics that means they can understand that the country is virtually bankrupt, so the deal was better than they had expected (I know this to be a fact as both myself and my partner are, in fact, teachers).

[jason_c]

its like reading about the inmates taking over the asylum this one.

Clarkson is a friend of David Cameron-fact.
Clarkson said he thought people exercising their right to protest in a democracy should be shot and he would like to see them executed in front of their families.

and he said exactly that ---and -they said very much the same about the miners -same sentiments exactly.
But not too many are taking much notice-2 million were out that day in the UK alone---and there has been a year of protest here---not all peaceful either like N30 was- [think rioting throughout LOndon and other cities in August and students earlier in the year occupying Fortnum and Masons etc and now the Occupy movement spreading like wildfire throughout the States---and other countries [ and being attacked quite violently from all accounts so by comparison Clarkson's attack was much milder being verbal rather than physical-] and in the Middle East especially Egypt out in their millions since January---the times they are a changing and 'free speech' is properly claiming its rights!

Proof that the Carter family supported the rape and murder of teenage boys.

Rosalynn Carter shaking hands with John Wayne Gacy.

[Natalie Severn]

At risk of sounding sexist or ageist, it would be interesting to know what demographic the majority of those who objected to Clarkson's comments fit into. I'd be willing to bet that, aside from the public sector workers, the vast majority would be older people who try and take the moral high ground. Oh the irony that those who headed the movement for equal rights and freedom of speech in decades gone by are now almost invariably the same ones who wish to stop people from having their basic rights of free speech!

After all, that's what it was, and all it was. Clarkson gets paid to give his opinion, he got asked his opinion, he gave his opinion - again, anybody who has watched anything of the man over the years knows full well that he is not one to hide his true views behind a layer of empty platitudes. There's enough of that goes on as it is.

Cheers,
Adam.

Why divert the discussion Adam? It was ---he, Clarkson ,a middle aged, very rich man expressing his views in the typical age old 'hanging and flogging' supercilious manner that the 1% of the super privileged often slide back into,especially when bothered about the hoi- polloi 'getting above themselves' or in this instance when the hoi -polloi are objecting to the way his pal Cameron and his multi millionaire friends in the government are set on impoverishing them! They see people exercising their freedom to protest about what lies ahead----and Clarkson and co throw a fit , brown their pants and shout abuse-how dare the peasants revolt!

[Natalie Severn]

Typical liberal thinker is not a label, merely a description; I do not call you that to insult you, only to point out the origin and meaning of your thought. Surely you, as a liberal thinker, would not consider the term "typical liberal thinker" to be an insult or a negative comment? Whereas we can scarcely say the same thing about the term "racist" or "sexist". They are, in a liberal dominated society, a way of closing down discussion in much the same way as "anti-semite" is the label used for anyone who dares to criticise Israeli foreign or domestic policy - you do so in public at your peril.
As for curtailing free speech, well 21,000 people calling for the resignation of Jeremy Clarkson would disagree with you.
You are quite correct in showing that I misread your post re: equal rights. My apologies.

its like reading about the inmates taking over the asylum this one.

Clarkson is a friend of David Cameron-fact.
Clarkson said he thought people exercising their right to protest in a democracy should be shot and he would like to see them executed in front of their families.

and he said exactly that ---and -they said very much the same about the miners -same sentiments exactly.
But not too many are taking much notice-2 million were out that day in the UK alone---and there has been a year of protest here---not all peaceful either like N30 was- [think rioting throughout LOndon and other cities in August and students earlier in the year occupying Fortnum and Masons etc and now the Occupy movement spreading like wildfire throughout the States---and other countries [ and being attacked quite violently from all accounts so by comparison Clarkson's attack was much milder being verbal rather than physical-] and in the Middle East especially Egypt out in their millions since January---the times they are a changing and 'free speech' is properly claiming its rights!

[Jason]

Clarkson is a vile man......little englander.......dislike him with a passion....gobshite and should be taken outside of his house and man fondled in front of his wife and kids

[jason_c]

But you don't even know me! How can you 'describe' me as a liberal thinker when you know nothing about me! You are even telling me what I am - using terms such as 'you, as a liberal thinker' - when I would certainly not call myself a liberal thinker.

21,000 people complained to the BBC - I am not so sure all of them were calling for his resignation - they objected to his terminology, certainly, and they have a right to do so. It seems to me that you wish Clarkson to have the right of freedom of speech and no one can object to his comments because freedom of speech means you can offend anyone and they just have to shut up and take it.

Thanks for the aoplogies re equal rights. Much appreciated.

How do you feel about Unison calling for Clarkson to be sacked?

http://www.unison.org.uk/asppresspac...ew.asp?id=2544


btw well said DrHopper, the linking of Clarkson and Anders Breivik is pathetic.

[Limehouse]

Typical liberal thinker is not a label, merely a description; I do not call you that to insult you, only to point out the origin and meaning of your thought. Surely you, as a liberal thinker, would not consider the term "typical liberal thinker" to be an insult or a negative comment? Whereas we can scarcely say the same thing about the term "racist" or "sexist". They are, in a liberal dominated society, a way of closing down discussion in much the same way as "anti-semite" is the label used for anyone who dares to criticise Israeli foreign or domestic policy - you do so in public at your peril.
As for curtailing free speech, well 21,000 people calling for the resignation of Jeremy Clarkson would disagree with you.
You are quite correct in showing that I misread your post re: equal rights. My apologies.

But you don't even know me! How can you 'describe' me as a liberal thinker when you know nothing about me! You are even telling me what I am - using terms such as 'you, as a liberal thinker' - when I would certainly not call myself a liberal thinker.

21,000 people complained to the BBC - I am not so sure all of them were calling for his resignation - they objected to his terminology, certainly, and they have a right to do so. It seems to me that you wish Clarkson to have the right of freedom of speech and no one can object to his comments because freedom of speech means you can offend anyone and they just have to shut up and take it.

Thanks for the aoplogies re equal rights. Much appreciated.

[DrHopper]

Typical liberal thinker is not a label, merely a description; I do not call you that to insult you, only to point out the origin and meaning of your thought. Surely you, as a liberal thinker, would not consider the term "typical liberal thinker" to be an insult or a negative comment? Whereas we can scarcely say the same thing about the term "racist" or "sexist". They are, in a liberal dominated society, a way of closing down discussion in much the same way as "anti-semite" is the label used for anyone who dares to criticise Israeli foreign or domestic policy - you do so in public at your peril.
As for curtailing free speech, well 21,000 people calling for the resignation of Jeremy Clarkson would disagree with you.
You are quite correct in showing that I misread your post re: equal rights. My apologies.

[Limehouse]

Actually yes, yes they did. That is precisely what freedom of speech is. To be able to speak freely without hindrance or censorship.
By trying to make it something else you are showing that you are a typical liberal thinker - you can have freedom of speech as long as it does not offend me or my ideals and does not stray too far from my own worldview. Anything else and I shall try and stop it, or I shall label you in way that invalidates your argument (i.e. rascist, sexist, fattist, fascist, etc., etc.). T'was ever thus. So deeply worrying for intellectual and expressive freedom, and one of the single biggest threats to western philosophy and thought - open and frank discussion cannot exist in a world where Clarkson's comments have come under such vehement and sustained attack. Whatever you think of Clarkson (and I personally think the man is a boorish loudmouth who can, on occasion, be very funny), this is the important issue.

Read my post again. I wrote: People who campaigned for equal rights did not do so in order that people like Clarkson could be pubically offensive and insensitive.

I wrote that comment in response to Adam's comments. He linked freedom of speech and equal rights. I think they are quite separate isues and my response was addressing equal rights.

The fact that we are all expressing our views abouth this issue, in a reasonably civilised way goes to show that freedom of speech is not being curtailed. Clarkson was exercising his right to freedom of speech and yet you state that his comments came under 'vehement abd sustained attack' from those who were simply doing the same - objecting to his comments.

You then go on to break your own rules my friend. You then to go on to complain that people are labelled 'racists, sexist, fattist' etc and yet you feel free to label me a 'typical liberal thinker' .

You want frank and open discussion? You are getting it! Clarkson wanted to express his views (joking or not) and he did so - frank and open discussion followed and continues.

[DrHopper]

People who campaigned for equal rights did not do so in order that people like Clarkson could be pubically offensive and insensitive.

Actually yes, yes they did. That is precisely what freedom of speech is. To be able to speak freely without hindrance or censorship.
By trying to make it something else you are showing that you are a typical liberal thinker - you can have freedom of speech as long as it does not offend me or my ideals and does not stray too far from my own worldview. Anything else and I shall try and stop it, or I shall label you in way that invalidates your argument (i.e. rascist, sexist, fattist, fascist, etc., etc.). T'was ever thus. So deeply worrying for intellectual and expressive freedom, and one of the single biggest threats to western philosophy and thought - open and frank discussion cannot exist in a world where Clarkson's comments have come under such vehement and sustained attack. Whatever you think of Clarkson (and I personally think the man is a boorish loudmouth who can, on occasion, be very funny), this is the important issue.

[DrHopper]

re Jeremy Clarkson and his Top Gear show-Norway's mass killer Breivik praises
him and his show.

Are you serious? Are you actually saying these words and meaning them? Without any irony at all? I would laugh at this, but the fact that you are linking these two is actually worrying - such a flaw in logic is beyond words, just simply amazing. Dear God almighty, you really need to think about what you are saying before you say it - perhaps you should get someone to read through your posts before putting them up.
Hitler loved Wagner, so Wagner is deserving of our hatred. Mmmm, makes perfect sense to me.