Jeremy Clarkson

[Natalie Severn]

Gosh you are such an out of time reactionary Jason....move with the times man!
nx

[Adam Went]

Jason:

Those specials are fantastic, loved the one from the southern states of the USA. As for Vietnam, remember the motorbike painted in the colours and style of a US flag and which played Springsteen's "Born In The USA" over and over? Clarkson's comment was priceless....."If anybody watching doesn't understand why this is bad.....ask your parents."

Clarkson is just a big kid, really. We need more levity in the world.

Cheers,
Adam.

[jason_c]

You really have no idea about the range of people who complained about Clarkson's comments. One of them, a neighbour o f mine, is an ex Tory councillor and fairly right wing. Others that I know of include Liberal (Old Liberal) councillors who are strong advocators of free speech.

I repeat, no is denying Clarkson's right to express his views but people have every right to oppose them and they may oppose them as strongly as they wish.

Here we have another example of double standards by those who pretend to stand up for free speech but would deny it to 'cuddly progressives'. What a stupid label. Boy some of these posters come from the bloody stone age.

When have I tried to deny people the right complain about Clarkson? Have I asked them to be imprisoned or sacked? No. I have attempted to point out their small mindedness (and yes, much of it politically motivated) and the possible consequences to free speech if these complaints are taken seriously.

[Limehouse]

Fair enough about the consequences. Us defenders of free speech must also allow the enemies of free speech to voice their opinions. I simply believe that such criticism of free speech is far more dangerous than anything Clarkson said. The Clarkson comments are now in the past. It is any future comments that are now important. I fear the BBC will now be less likely to air such comments. If that is so then the left have actually won.

Free speech shouldnt be just for "cuddly" progressives.

You really have no idea about the range of people who complained about Clarkson's comments. One of them, a neighbour of mine, is an ex Tory councillor and fairly right wing. Others that I know of include Liberal (Old Liberal) councillors who are strong advocators of free speech.

I repeat, no is denying Clarkson's right to express his views but people have every right to oppose them and they may oppose them as strongly as they wish.

Here we have another example of double standards by those who pretend to stand up for free speech but would deny it to 'cuddly progressives'. What a stupid label. Boy some of these posters come from the bloody stone age.

[jason_c]

and julian assange? whats your position on him?

Julian Assange I hate with a passion. But he's someone who should be allowed to publish the information he receives(hopefully with a redaction of named agents etc). I relished climategate so i'd be hypocritical if were to view Assange differently. I would also state that its not entirely clear if Assange conspired with Bradley Manning. If Assange simply received the information then he's innocent, if he conspired beforehand then he should face legal action.

This is different to the allegations hes currently fighting. None of us know if hes guilty or not. I'd also view Bradley Manning differently. He will have signed the US version of the Official Secrets Act.

[Natalie Severn]

Fair enough about the consequences. Us defenders of free speech must also allow the enemies of free speech to voice their opinions. I simply believe that such criticism of free speech is far more dangerous than anything Clarkson said. The Clarkson comments are now in the past. It is any future comments that are now important. I fear the BBC will now be less likely to air such comments. If that is so then the left have actually won.


Free speech shouldnt be just for "cuddly" progressives.

and julian assange? whats your position on him?

[jason_c]

But not without criticism, comment or even condemnation.

And certainly not without consequences

Fair enough about the consequences. Us defenders of free speech must also allow the enemies of free speech to voice their opinions. I simply believe that such criticism of free speech is far more dangerous than anything Clarkson said. The Clarkson comments are now in the past. It is any future comments that are now important. I fear the BBC will now be less likely to air such comments. If that is so then the left have actually won.


Free speech shouldnt be just for "cuddly" progressives.

[jason_c]

Limehouse:

I would not buy a Clarkson DVD if my life depended on it.

I off to get my head checked.

Well a Top Gear DVD wouldn't be a Clarkson DVD, would it? There are two other co-presenters and numerous guests and other segments.

I think that with that comment of yours....I rest my case.

Cheers,
Adam.

Or there is youtube. Top Gear specials in Vietnam, the North Pole etc.

[Adam Went]

Limehouse:

I would not buy a Clarkson DVD if my life depended on it.

I off to get my head checked.

Well a Top Gear DVD wouldn't be a Clarkson DVD, would it? There are two other co-presenters and numerous guests and other segments.

I think that with that comment of yours....I rest my case.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Julie-its not you that needs a head check-its the people running the asylum!
Hi Robert-a really sad story.

Magpie---am having to think about this.I am greatly bothered by what has happened /is happening to Julian Assange.
Best
Norma

[Robert]

But Magpie

There was a group of pacifists in Nazi Germany called the White Rose (or something like that) who handed out anti-Nazi literature on street corners. They were certainly free to take the consequences - which followed about 20 minutes later when the Gestapo picked them up.

[Magpie]

Terry Pratchett summed it up nicely....

"...no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.”

[Magpie]

That is precisely what freedom of speech is. To be able to speak freely without hindrance or censorship.

But not without criticism, comment or even condemnation.

And certainly not without consequences

[Limehouse]

Limehouse:

People can't campaign for freedom of speech and then come out and say "oh, but you still can't say this, this and this, because one is offensive to this group of people, this is offensive to that group of people" and so on....freedom of speech is freedom of speech.

Yes, there are limits to the decency of certain comments but in this case Clarkson's comments are so obsurd that anybody who takes them seriously needs their head checked. It's a typical knee-jerk reaction from people who don't understand the man and how he works.

I think the fact that Limehouse & Natalie have been probably the two most vehement critics of Clarkson illustrate my earlier point better than I could have ever hoped to do it myself. Go out and get yourselves a Top Gear DVD, watch half a dozen episodes and come back and see if your opinion of Clarkson's comments has adjusted at all.

Dr. Hopper....very well said.

Cheers,
Adam.

I would not buy a Clarkson DVD if my life depended on it.

I off to get my head checked.

[Limehouse]

Listen Julie this chap calling himself Dr Hopper is the one writhing about with his underpants in a twist !
I joined in because I noticed he was trying to give you stick and I thought I would support you but why do we bother wasting our time? He and his pal only answer by twisting what is said......for example I did not say Jeremy Clarkson supported the Norwegian mass murderer- I said the Norwegian mass murderer supported Jeremy Clarkson which is totally different ----Clarkson calling on national television for the shooting and execution of peaceful marchers on November 30th can be taken seriously by such nutcases and its why people have to be careful about expressing such views in a language that can become lethal . An innocent,peaceful rally of 'left leaning' people in Norway turned into a shooting and execution spree by a chap who expressed himself in exactly those sort of terms.An East End Muslim preacher I seem to recall was jailed for using such language .
I certainly would not condone the use of such language on a TV channel-I don't care how spontaneously its claimed Clarkson used that language -he used it and it was known about beforehand so it could not have been all that spontaneous.
Two million people did come out on N30 and ofcourse , as always, certain right wing commentators will deny figures and diminish them as expected [ not all it has to be said-the Daily Telegraph and the Financial Times-are usually fairly reliable about such facts but usually figures are diminished like that very deliberately .

As for the economy this Dr Dick doesn't appear to have a single clue about capitalist economics-to generate growth people have to be able to spend and if they are impoverished by unemployment they can neither spend or generate growth and therefore national wealth.Capitalism was built on an anarchic market structure and it was paper betting in the stock exchange and the activities of inexperienced hedgefunders that did for it in 2008 ---read Soros---- Lemans went bust and the knock on effect combined with that of other irresponsible world bankers caused the crisis.Soros claims that had things been in the hands of more experienced financiers things woul;d not have got so out of hand.
But flatlining the economy is ridiculous. It just means that world wide ,the poor get poorer.Latest figures are that 25% of the United Kingdom's children are now officially below the poverty line.The previous labour government at least built schools and hospitals---though their borrowing didn't help I agree but heckers like- do you know what we have actually got into billion, if not trillion , pound debt over ? The trillions of pounds[/B] we have spent on Wars!One of them a war in Iraq that left a million dead because Blair insisted Sadam Hussain was sitting in his palace on top of a nuclear arsenal! But he wasn't! This same Sadam btw being the man we sold chemical weapons to when he attacked Iran for eight years!It all beggars belief.
Anyway I am done with arguing with Dr Dick and co
Cheers
N



And people are wrong if they think I am hard up----far from it actually.
Cheers,
N

Thanks Norma. A Wonderful post - and you are right on all points. Thanks for your support, as always.