Eurozone Groan

[DVV]

Does anyone have any views on this subject?

They clearly have no solution. Especially France, Italy and Spain. I don't mention Greece for they're already dead.

In Italy Berluscony has gone.
Very well.

But Mario Monti comes from Goldman Sachs. Isn't that worse ?

[Fleetwood Mac]

There are some nice Rembrandts and some ancient Greek/Messopotamian things, but it can't compare to Paris or London, not in a million years.
But it's still a vibrant town. And possibly the cheapest big city to live in Europe.

Well, I'm certainly a fan and prefer Berlin to London.

Shame that Polish Losers pub shut down - had many a good night in there :-)

[mariab]

You must agree, Maria?

Nope, I'm afraid not, but it doesn't matter anyway. :-)

That's interesting because one of the things that struck me first is that there is so much space in Berlin. Even in the centre, there is no traffic build up.

Yes, one of the things I dig about my city is that there's tons of space, lots of trees, and several lakes nearby. And in the fall there are autumn leaves up to one's calves, and I love walking on them/through them.
Traffic is definitely an issue. On rush hour and on Friday afternoon it's as bad as N.Y., and most folks my age choose not to buy cars, using their bikes instead. The tube system is more efficient and endlessly less crowded than London. But then, Berlin is tiny and empty compared to London.

You have some fantastic museums over there, I must say.

There are some nice Rembrandts and some ancient Greek/Messopotamian things, but it can't compare to Paris or London, not in a million years.
But it's still a vibrant town. And possibly the cheapest big city to live in Europe.

[Limehouse]

Opinions not options. What do you feel about someone denying the holocaust? Entitled to an opinion?

What exactly is a 'fairer tax system' and 'everyone paying their way'?

Denying the holocaust is pointless and stupid and anyone doing so makes themselves look foolish.

A fairer tax system would make the sort of thing outlined in the story below impossible to do:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1611272/Super-rich-paying-no-income-tax.html

[Fleetwood Mac]

I do not agree that History has proven left-wing policy to be facist in nature. It really depends on which history books you read and which left-wing examples you study. There you go again - lumping everything 'left' into one concept.

Answers to your questions:

1. Can you be precise about 'certain options'? I certainly do not want to ban the BNP as you previously claimed. However, as I have said before, I would censor sex with children, the gassing of Jews (or anyone else) and other similar actrocities.
2. Do I feel the answer to the nation's ills is to tax the rich and businesses in even greater amounts to give to the poor? No - I don't. I want a fairer tax system with fewer loopholes and I want EVERYONE - well-off AND not so well-off to pay their way. I want real, long-term GLOBAL strategies to eliminate poverty.

If there is something wrong with that then I am happy to be in error.

Opinions not options. What do you feel about someone denying the holocaust? Entitled to an opinion?

What exactly is a 'fairer tax system' and 'everyone paying their way'?

[Limehouse]

No, no.

Quite clearly I'm giving you my opinion.

History has proven left-wing policy to be fascist in nature.

You could prove me wrong here, Limehouse.

Two simple questions:

1) Do you want to close down certain opinions?
2) Do you feel that the answer to the nation's ills is to tax 'the rich' and 'business' in even greater amounts to give to the poor?

I do not agree that History has proven left-wing policy to be facist in nature. It really depends on which history books you read and which left-wing examples you study. There you go again - lumping everything 'left' into one concept.

Answers to your questions:

1. Can you be precise about 'certain options'? I certainly do not want to ban the BNP as you previously claimed. However, as I have said before, I would censor sex with children, the gassing of Jews (or anyone else) and other similar actrocities.
2. Do I feel the answer to the nation's ills is to tax the rich and businesses in even greater amounts to give to the poor? No - I don't. I want a fairer tax system with fewer loopholes and I want EVERYONE - well-off AND not so well-off to pay their way. I want real, long-term GLOBAL strategies to eliminate poverty.

If there is something wrong with that then I am happy to be in error.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I like it that you're quite unique and a bit isolated on your island.

Isolated Maria?! We're the centre of the universe, in the same vein as human beings are the centre of the universe. I suppose Hume discredited the idea that man is closer to God than animals, but, as of yet, no one has been able to discredit the fact that, still, after all of these years, we remain pure genius. You must agree, Maria?

And by the by, Berlin is incredibly chaotic. Construction everywhere, hindering everything, even the tube keeps changing its open stations.

[/QUOTE]

That's interesting because one of the things that struck me first is that there is so much space in Berlin. Even in the centre, there is no traffic build up.

You have some fantastic museums over there, I must say.

[mariab]

I like it that you're quite unique and a bit isolated on your island.

The famous German inferiority complex is based on the fact that they're a fairly new nation. Just think about when the first German state was created vs. England, France, the rest of Europe.

The streets where you can see down for miles because everything is in straight lines also pertains to the fact that Germany got urbanized very late, almost in the mid 20th century. Compared this to Paris and London, even Naples! If you visit a few medieval German towns, you'll lose the straight lines.

And by the by, Berlin is incredibly chaotic. Construction everywhere, hindering everything, even the tube keeps changing its open stations.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Probably the best people to share government with:
- They're well organised.
- They have a strong civic duty. (Rarely have the Germans experienced any great financial scandals, despite of the fact that in Bavaria a few times the dead are known to have voted, but Bavaria is a very special case, it has some Italian flair.)
- They're genuinely green.

So you really liked Spandau? ;-) I live just behind Wittenbergplatz.

Hello Maria,

Walk around any English town and city and you will see absolutely shocking town planning. Buildings are knocked up with no real forethought, except let's get a building on that piece of land over there. So, the place is haphazard. It's part of the charm and beauty of England that everything isn't planned to the nth degree with streets where you can see down for miles because everything is in straight lines. English towns speak of individual initiative, not town council planning.

On the green issue, another difference. We are automatically sceptical of a grand idea such as 'the environment'. It's bread in the bone that, at least in part, these ideas are inevitably the vehicle of those pushing their agenda at the expense of what is actually happening. And, people love to herd behind ideas, which is why you have all sorts of people, presumably lacking the scientific wherewithal, including the apparatus in the basement, to verify the proposition. It is unbelievably arrogant to think that we, this species which watches endless reality television nonsense, can possibly kill the planet. The planet will outlast human existence.

I'm afraid we're just different, Maria. But that's a good thing. The world needs a spread of ideas; it's healthy. We don't need everyone merging into one form of government.

And, yes, I've been to Berlin about 4 or 5 times. Spent a full day in the German history museum. And spent quite a few days in the pubs over there. I just happened to be staying in Spandau one time, which is why I was in a few pubs round that place. As I say, I've always felt welcome in Germany, and I've always preferred visiting Central (I'd include Germany in that category) and Eastern Europe than Western Europe.

Just like to leave you with two anecdotes, Maria:

Martha Gellhorn the American journalist (I think she was married to Ernest Hemmingway) moved to England and said something like: "The thing with the English is that they're so sure of themselves. You see the Germans are always asking what you think of them; whereas the English don't give a damn: they're certain of their superiority".

I went touring round Europe with a few friends when I was 18. We'd been to France, Holland, Belguim and a couple of other places. Then went to Germany - Cologne first stop. In Holland we'd wrecked our tent, one of the lads had had too much beer and being 6'4 fell over the top of the tent and smashed the whole thing, so we couldn't put it up from then on. Rolled up in Cologne at a campsite and the Germans were there doing their professional thing with caravans the size of houses and grills outside with all sorts of meats being cooked on them. We turned up with out tent, as we couldn't put it up we just laid the canvass on the floor, had a tin of cold beans each with a slice of bread and headed into the town for a skinful of beer. Came back at 2 in the morning absolutely pie-eyed and just got under the tent like a quilt on the floor. Woke up in the morning with all the Germans staring at us like we were animals, which too be fair wasn't far from the truth.

You see, Maria, although Germany is one of my favourite countries and is awlays near the top of the list when I'm considering going anywhere, we're simply not like you. We're amateurs to a large extent, and yes, you are more professional in your approach.

I read one of your earlier posts about England being influenced by the US. That is a gross misrepresentation of England. We remain one of the most unique countries on this planet with a way of doing things and eccentricities that no one else understands. Just the way it should be :-)

[mariab]

Ah Maria. You know, I really like the Germans. {...} It's just that I don't want to share government with them.

Probably the best people to share government with:
- They're well organised.
- They have a strong civic duty. (Rarely have the Germans experienced any great financial scandals, despite of the fact that in Bavaria a few times the dead are known to have voted, but Bavaria is a very special case, it has some Italian flair.)
- They're genuinely green.

So you really liked Spandau? ;-) I live just behind Wittenbergplatz.

[Fleetwood Mac]

You keep telling me 'you will do this, you will do that' and you don't even know me! How do you know I feel virtuous? How do you know 'I think I know better?'

You don't know who I am so don't tell me what I think or what I want to do.

No, no.

Quite clearly I'm giving you my opinion.

History has proven left-wing policy to be fascist in nature.

You could prove me wrong here, Limehouse.

Two simple questions:

1) Do you want to close down certain opinions?
2) Do you feel that the answer to the nation's ills is to tax 'the rich' and 'business' in even greater amounts to give to the poor?

[Limehouse]

Well, I suppose there are the social anarchists, e.g. Chomsky; then there is the bulk of the left who want more and more state instrusion into the individual's life.

What are you saying, Limehouse: you're happy to leave people to their own devices? Let me see: do you want to close down certain opinions?



Limehouse, it's you who doesn't understand.

You will ban stuff because you think you know better, i.e. the virtuous human being on an equality and fairness mission.

I will allow pretty much anything, because to me there is no one true way.

I can't stand the left, but they're entitled to their opinion.

You can't stand the BNP, and you want them banned.

See the difference?

You keep telling me 'you will do this, you will do that' and you don't even know me! How do you know I feel virtuous? How do you know 'I think I know better?'

You don't know who I am so don't tell me what I think or what I want to do.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Agree.

Absolutely, and you can nicely compare this to the way the police operated between France and England during the Victorian era.

Ah Maria. You know, I really like the Germans. Had some great times there. Last time I was there, I stayed in Spandau and spent a lot of my time in the pub talking to the locals. Always made welcome in Germany. It's just that I don't want to share government with them.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Firstly, I don't think you understand left-wing politics at all. For a start, 'the left' - as you keep calling it - is not one great homogenous lump. It is a range of ideas and ideals, opinions and plans, arguments and propositions.

Well, I suppose there are the social anarchists, e.g. Chomsky; then there is the bulk of the left who want more and more state instrusion into the individual's life.

What are you saying, Limehouse: you're happy to leave people to their own devices? Let me see: do you want to close down certain opinions?

It could just as easily be said that anyone's view, just becasue it is based on their principles, is seen by them as 'virtuous'.

Limehouse, it's you who doesn't understand.

You will ban stuff because you think you know better, i.e. the virtuous human being on an equality and fairness mission.

I will allow pretty much anything, because to me there is no one true way.

I can't stand the left, but they're entitled to their opinion.

You can't stand the BNP, and you want them banned.

See the difference?

[mariab]

And yes, Germany paid next to nothing back in reparations. Certainly an insignificant amount compared to that which Germany has paid to the EU. Financially the post WW1 settlement wasnt overly harsh on Germany. The Germans themselves had demanded much harsher settlement from Bolshevik Russia at the treaty of Brest-Litovsk.

Agree.

You know, in France the government can have a new railway line knocked up in the crack; in England there are countless petitions "not in my back garden" and the process is much, much slower.

Absolutely, and you can nicely compare this to the way the police operated between France and England during the Victorian era.