Bloody shame

[bolo]

Personally I'm beginning to think that kids and parents should be required to pass a number of psychological evaluations in order to work in show business.

I don't think this would help to lower the number of casualities, so to speak. The problem lies in the way the business is run and the incredible amount of money that can be made with it, and maybe the way we perceive it.

[jason_c]

Although this is a tragedy, as any untimely death is, she lost a lot of my sympathy by point blank refusing the help offered to her, then glamourising the refusal in song.

But, as with any other addict, I doubt she was capable of thinking straight. It is always sad to see priorities skewer under addiction, be you a famous singer or just another stoner.

To be fair the song was well before her addiction, I think. I've read reports she was a fairly clean living gal early in her career.


She had become a figure of ridicule these last few years. Unfortunately she couldnt cope with her demons. I do find it interesting that despite being one of the most famous addicts in the country there was always someone sleazeball around to enable her addiction.

[jason_c]

Personally I'm beginning to think that kids and parents should be required to pass a number of psychological evaluations in order to work in show business.

And there goes the career of some of the greatest artists, singers, writers, actors and musicians of the 20th century.

[Errata]

And there goes the career of some of the greatest artists, singers, writers, actors and musicians of the 20th century.

Really? Who was such a great performer as a child that we would have missed out? Who was so nuanced and talented that it would be worth putting them through what Drew Barrymore went through? I'm not saying bar them from the profession forever, but it wouldn't be such a huge loss if we tried to protect them when they were kids.

[jason_c]

Really? Who was such a great performer as a child that we would have missed out? Who was so nuanced and talented that it would be worth putting them through what Drew Barrymore went through? I'm not saying bar them from the profession forever, but it wouldn't be such a huge loss if we tried to protect them when they were kids.

The Wizard of Oz would have turned out pants without Judy Garland. Shes a fail in your psychiatry test.

It all depends on how old you mean by kids. Most artists show a driving ambition from a fairly early age. Artists dont suddenly arrive at the age of 18 not having done a lot of hard work. It is success(and failure) that is the problem, not performing. Holding that drive and ambition back is kinda silly, and possibly self defeating.

[Errata]

The Wizard of Oz would have turned out pants without Judy Garland. Shes a fail in your psychiatry test.

It all depends on how old you mean by kids. Most artists show a driving ambition from a fairly early age. Artists dont suddenly arrive at the age of 18 not having done a lot of hard work. It is success(and failure) that is the problem, not performing. Holding that drive and ambition back is kinda silly, and possibly self defeating.

I honestly don't know. Especially with singers, because you get these wonder children with golden voices, and they are destroying their instrument. They are forcing their voices to function in a way they cannot naturally function, and they lose complete vocal control by the time they are 30. I mean, this city is littered with them. I was one of them. And I can't say that I wish I hadn't done showbiz as a kid. But I can say that I wish I could do it now, but I can't because forcing my voice broke it.

If a kid wants to sing, or act, or play an instrument, there is plenty of learning that can fill the gap until they turn 18. I mean, you almost never get a kid in an orchestra, and most professional classical musicians are pretty healthy. You never really hear about mad cellists. And I've been to orchestra parties and they are not boring, but no one gets hauled off in cuffs either (for the most part). I wonder why they seem so well adjusted? I mean, ballet is absolutely the least healthy environment you could ever hope to witness, rock stars and country crooners flame out all the time, "child actor" is now a stereotype, artists manufacture torment... but no horror stories coming from orchestra pits. I'm sure theres a study somewhere.

And I could have lived a long life without ever seeing the Wizard of Oz. It still scares the crap out of me.

[jason_c]

I honestly don't know. Especially with singers, because you get these wonder children with golden voices, and they are destroying their instrument. They are forcing their voices to function in a way they cannot naturally function, and they lose complete vocal control by the time they are 30. I mean, this city is littered with them. I was one of them. And I can't say that I wish I hadn't done showbiz as a kid. But I can say that I wish I could do it now, but I can't because forcing my voice broke it.

If a kid wants to sing, or act, or play an instrument, there is plenty of learning that can fill the gap until they turn 18. I mean, you almost never get a kid in an orchestra, and most professional classical musicians are pretty healthy. You never really hear about mad cellists. And I've been to orchestra parties and they are not boring, but no one gets hauled off in cuffs either (for the most part). I wonder why they seem so well adjusted? I mean, ballet is absolutely the least healthy environment you could ever hope to witness, rock stars and country crooners flame out all the time, "child actor" is now a stereotype, artists manufacture torment... but no horror stories coming from orchestra pits. I'm sure theres a study somewhere.

And I could have lived a long life without ever seeing the Wizard of Oz. It still scares the crap out of me.

I think your answer is fame.

They dont have dirty floozies throwing themselves at cellists every 5 minutes(or do they?), sleazeball hangers-on providing drugs, or have more money than sense. What they dont have is fame and all that fame brings.

Nor do they have sycophants telling them how wonderful they are every 5 minutes.



edit: Im just an ageing sod jealous at the young "beautiful people".

[Robert]

Hi Boris

Could I ask a question? I can well understand the pressure to repeat a success, to keep the sales up. But how do the contracts work? Suppose a singer or band contracts to produce, say, five albums within a certain period. Who exercises quality control? For example, can the record company listen to the latest album and say "That's not good enough. Do it all over again, or find a different bunch of songs"? And does the company decide how much promotional work the artist must do, in terms of touring, interviews, photoshoots etc?

I heard that back in the 60s, the bands signed contracts that gave them peanuts, but if by the time the contract expired they were still popular, they could negotiate a much more favourable contract and really start making money.

[miss marple]

Errata, you been watching Black Swan? Its not true, I have worked with many ballet dancers and they are among the nicest, most disipilined and normal out all showbiz folk.Many girls have ballet lessons,[ i did] but not with the intention of becoming dancers. Dancers are basically athletes and their muscles are reworked to achieve the result, as are runners rowers gymnasts etc. All forms of physical extreamism ARE not the norm.why pick on ballet dancers?
Young classic musicians get burn out too as the stress of getting to concert level is incredibly hard.Any performing arts activity requires incredible stamina, poor Amy had an addictive personality and any activity she did would have had the same result.

Miss Marple

[bolo]

Hi Robert,

Hi Boris

Could I ask a question? I can well understand the pressure to repeat a success, to keep the sales up. But how do the contracts work? Suppose a singer or band contracts to produce, say, five albums within a certain period. Who exercises quality control? For example, can the record company listen to the latest album and say "That's not good enough. Do it all over again, or find a different bunch of songs"? And does the company decide how much promotional work the artist must do, in terms of touring, interviews, photoshoots etc?

yes, many bigger labels have some sort of quality control, the job is called music manager. He supports a band and keeps an eye on the guys in order to meet all required targets. He steers the artist/band into a certain direction to make sure the precious studio time does not get wasted. In the studio, we have the technical staff who tune the sound to taste and producers who are good at "friendly subliminal control". Nothing gets by them.

However, the band wouldn't be in the studio if there hadn't been positive signs before. The artist/band may have worked or a promotion contractor first, usually it's a slow process and the label guys don't show up until they're sure you'll be the next big hit or at least perform reasonably well to break even and get them a bit of free label advertisting.

The success of a label and/or music distributor depends on the ability of the bosses and agents to jump in at the right time.

Long-term deals for more than two albums are getting rarer by the minute if you don't happen to be an international superstar. The challenges of digital media changed the music industry and led to an increasing number of so-called 360 deals. These are contracts that enable the company to tap into all of your income as an artist. They'll not only get money from album sales but also TV appearances, book sales, etc. Many classic record labels turned into multimedia companies out of sheer necessity. This enables lesser known artists to get a contract and companies to broaden their portfolio.

The number of tours and promotional activities is a matter of the contract. Labels usually expect their artists to go on tour at least once a year or when a new album comes out. The less your music is suitable for live gigs, the less likely it is that you'll get a good deal.

I heard that back in the 60s, the bands signed contracts that gave them peanuts, but if by the time the contract expired they were still popular, they could negotiate a much more favourable contract and really start making money.

Heh, the 60s were the golden era of the music biz but only from a manager's point of view, most bands were treated like sheep. Label owners hysterically signed acts left and right in order to find the next Beatles, Stones or Hendrix and quickly dropped them if they didn't make it. Most musicians were heavily unorganized and didn't know a thing about contracts, promotion and head of agreement... the biz still is a minefield but the methods are less criminal today. Today, any up-and-coming artist can go to his or her local library (or browse the internet) for tons of information on music contracts and all the legal stuff that comes with it. This is highly recommended if you don't want to get milked dry on the first gig.

Regards,

Boris

[Robert]

Thanks Boris. I guess it's still a minefield for the unwary, but those who do take an interest in the production side can sometimes end up as producers after the bubble has burst.

[Errata]

Errata, you been watching Black Swan? Its not true, I have worked with many ballet dancers and they are among the nicest, most disipilined and normal out all showbiz folk.Many girls have ballet lessons,[ i did] but not with the intention of becoming dancers. Dancers are basically athletes and their muscles are reworked to achieve the result, as are runners rowers gymnasts etc. All forms of physical extreamism ARE not the norm.why pick on ballet dancers?


Miss Marple

Yeah I passed on Black Swan. It's not that ballet people are toxic, ballet itself is. I've worked with some dance companies, and they have some really lovely people, but it not healthy. I have never seen anyone dance uninjured. And I have worked with as many as 300 ballet dancers. The competition is fierce although its friendly, so no one rests their injuries until they become absolutely unmanageable. I've seen some of these women just freak out over gaining four pounds, and it's not a vanity thing. Its because an extra four pounds throws off their balance, their turns get wobbly, their lifts just sort of blow up. Never mind the poor guy who comes onstage between acts to wipe the blood off of the floor. There's only so many times you can lose your toenails before they stop growing back, dance injuries can be permanently crippling, almost no women dance past the age of 30, but if they were professionals a good deal of them never even finished high school.

Ballet is incredibly demanding, requiring iron discipline for a very short career and very few outlets past retirement. That's what I mean. A 16 year old ballet dancer is not unusual, but when they are forced to retire they will have no marketable skills, and often no education. It's pretty brutal.

[miss marple]

I ve worked with Ballet dancers at national ballet companies and many dancers are still dancing in their forties, often they teach when they stop dancing and many marry well, ballet attracts rich men, not to put too cynical a point on it ballet is very middle class still in England.Ok they get bad feet, but lots of sports have downsides.
Dancers need loads of stamina and anorexic dancers or dancers who eat badly would not survive a career.[ I know of one famous british dancer who crashed because of anorexia, which causes brittle bones]I never heard any of them moan about putting on weight. I think some American companies like super skinny dancers, probably there is not the same pressure in England.

Regards Miss

[Robert]

Dame Margot Fontayne famously danced well beyond a dancer's natural lifespan and apparently danced very well too.