Oslo bomb and Utøya shooting

[babybird67]

absolutely heartbreaking

This man is not a Christian. He does not comprehend what it means. And that is from an atheist.

[Natalie Severn]

It appears Anders Breivik is a right-wing fundamentalist Christian.

But he is probably sick Heinrich-probably.
Its just tragic and horrific

[Robert]

Well, we don't know what sort of influences he's exposed himself to, but I find it difficult to imagine any right-wing organization, however extreme, that would advocate killing one's own people. Foreigners would be the expected targets.

Bizarrely, Norway seems to have a 21 year maximum sentence for murder, and operates on the supermarket principle that we also have here (do five murders and get four of them free - in other words, concurrent sentences).

[The Grave Maurice]

What I can't fathom is the response time to the island. Do the Norwegian police not have helicopters?

[Heinrich]

Lots of fundamentalist Christians cannot abide socialists, Muslims, gays, atheists, etc.
They are devoted to an intolerant doctrine.
The young victims on the island were all card-carrying members of the ruling socialist party.

[Errata]

What I can't fathom is the response time to the island. Do the Norwegian police not have helicopters?

They do, but it wasn't on standby. So it had not been prepped, fueled, etc.

[Limehouse]

Well, we don't know what sort of influences he's exposed himself to, but I find it difficult to imagine any right-wing organization, however extreme, that would advocate killing one's own people. Foreigners would be the expected targets.

Bizarrely, Norway seems to have a 21 year maximum sentence for murder, and operates on the supermarket principle that we also have here (do five murders and get four of them free - in other words, concurrent sentences).

I would think that this man viewed socialists - not as his own but in the same way he viewed Muslims. Also - he may have blamed socialists for tolerating Muslims in 'his' country. Additionally - he was possibly paranoid - it is indeed hard to believe that any organisation would advocate his actions except in the condition of war.

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

The latest news is as follows:-

Utøya incident: 85 dead, 5 missing, 11 seriously injured... total of 67 injured from the island
Oslo incident: 7 dead, 30 injured

Phil

[Natalie Severn]

Lots of fundamentalist Christians cannot abide socialists, Muslims, gays, atheists, etc.
They are devoted to an intolerant doctrine.
The young victims on the island were all card-carrying members of the ruling socialist party.

Yes Heinrich and these organisations probably attract quite a few mentally ill people.Its all part of the danger run when newspapers and other media encourage fear and prejudice about groups such as gays,socialists ,Muslims etc. It only took one damaged/deranged individual to make a start and begin to 'sort them out'.It has happened here in Brixton and in America .

[Natalie Severn]

Well, we don't know what sort of influences he's exposed himself to, but I find it difficult to imagine any right-wing organization, however extreme, that would advocate killing one's own people. Foreigners would be the expected targets.

I don't follow you Robert.....as a friend said earlier to me
"Did the Nazi's in Germany in the 30's and 40's target only it's opponents [jews, homosexuals, intellectuals, trade unionists, gypsies, disabled etc] if they were from other countries? Of course not...the Nazi's started on German Jews in 1933 and got around to the rest within the following decade..irrespective of what country they came from."

Robert, here we have a young man so influenced by ultra- nationalism that he planned to make a mass grave of a holiday camp that might out -auschwitz Auschwitz, a preplanned ,prepared mass death completed in less than a day -for young people committed to find ways to shape society that might better serve all its people- including arrivant people . He was determined to disintegrate their efforts to create a more harmonious and inclusive society for all.

[Limehouse]

Most worryingly - he has been in touch with ultra-right organisations in this country such as the EDL. How on earth can he call himself a Christian? His actions were wicked beyond belief.

How terrified those young people must have been. My heart goes out to the people of Norway. I wish there was something I could do.

[Robert]

Nats, I think we're getting tangled up here, and it's late.

Limehouse, I do hope the court won't do the Christian thing to him, which would be, to release him with the words "Go, and sin no more."

[Archaic]

What I can't fathom is the response time to the island. Do the Norwegian police not have helicopters?

Hi Ken. That's what I was wondering. If the police didn't have helicopters, didn't they at least have speedboats? How could it possibly take 90 minutes for the police to arrive at the scene? Think how many lives were lost every single minute they delayed.

I thought every modern country had some kind of "Special Response Team" trained to deal with terror attacks and mass murders. In the U.S. we have police SWAT teams (Special Weapons and Tactics) equipped to deploy instantly, with fleets of helicopters, speedboats, and everything else they might need to reach a crime scene rapidly.

I can't even imagine the horror of those 90 minutes. Every second must have been a living hell for those still alive, trying desperately to survive. Let's hope the Norwegian police and all other police forces will learn from this, and be properly trained and equipped in the future.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Phil H]

I come belatedly to this thread, but no less heartfelt are my condolences. The loss of life is shocking - made worse by the fact that these were such young people with promising lives before them.

Heinrich - I do not know what your experiences have been that made you write:

Lots of fundamentalist Christians cannot abide socialists, Muslims, gays, atheists, etc...They are devoted to an intolerant doctrine.

Christianity is NOT intolerant. Anyone who reads the gospels will see that Christ preached a creed of tolerance, inclusiveness and love. His parable of the Good samaritan, his conversation with the woman at the well of samaria, the way he reacted to the woman taken in adultery - all speak of that. Jesus spoke of forgiving seventy times times seven, touched lepers (then the untouchable) healed the sick, fed the multitude and never asked anyone about their status - though he did say that it is more difficult for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven (which rather contradicts your point about socialists).

Some religeons have evolved dogma that has nothing to do with the founder of Christianity - basing their arguments on Old Testament law and some of the statements of St Paul, but surely Jesus' words must be given prominence.

This killer seems to me, at first impression, to be close kin (I'm speaking in terms of attitude) to some of the members of the SS who were responsible for such horrors during the war - emotionless, carried away by political (as against religious) precepts that were out of proportion in his mind, making him cold, remorseless, overwhelming his moral sense. Giving himself up - rather than as seems more usual, shooting himself to avoid capture - seems to demonstrate that he perceives himself as wholly in the right, with views that others might listen to.

As if his actions have not made his views abhorrent to any normal person.

While he may not be medically insame, this is surely a form of insanity.

My thoughts and prayers are all with those who have lost loved ones in such a shocking and unnecessary way.

Phil

[jason_c]

Let me never hear the phrase "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' ever again.