Troubles with Whitechapel

[Versa]

hiya Adam

I think Robert, Lynn, etc are helping you out extremely well now

Most sites like census records and so forth require you to be a paying member in order to see full records. Like you i'm not well read up on all of that though - we have a family genealogist and it's definitely not me .

Yes its great to have some extra eyes that have a better idea than me what to look for lol Luckily mum has paid for me to have access to the census (except the 1911) she's getting to the point of hiring psychics to help lol

[lynn cates]

oops

Hello Versa. Yes, it is. Oops.

Cheers.
LC

[Versa]

Hello Versa. Yes, it is. Oops.

lol yes that was the family we just picked at random and for no really good reason before we got the marriage cert that gave us the name William.

[Robert]

Hi Versa

You say that she found out she'd been fostered when she applied for her pension at 60. Do you know how she found this out? I mean, if she had no siblings and her foster father was dead, that would leave her foster mother who would probably have been in her 80s or 90s if still alive.

[Versa]

Hiya Robert

We don't know how she found out at that point... My grandfather (her son) said she went to get her pension at 60 and found out then that the people she 'thought were her parents were her parents' weren't.

We have her national insurance number and tried that way but they wouldn't/couldn't give us any information.

We don't even know if it was both parents that she discovered weren't her real parents (ie she was a nurse/foster/adopted child) or if it was just her mother that was different on her birth certificate.

You say that she found out she'd been fostered when she applied for her pension at 60. Do you know how she found this out? I mean, if she had no siblings and her foster father was dead, that would leave her foster mother who would probably have been in her 80s or 90s if still alive.

[Robert]

Hmmm....bit difficult, to say the least.

[Versa]

ok.... Update after a night on the wine chatting to mum we went home and went through every piece of paper we have (a lot) and its become clear that Elizabeth Mary Mitchell was commonly known as Mary.

I've found out that Ernest Walker (Eliszabeth Mary Mitchell futuer husband) was living at 14 Sutton Lane Chiswick in 1901..................... In 1911 William Mitchell (paperhanger) is living there with a daughter Mary Mitchell. Same house, 14 Sutton Lane.

Ernests Father Charles Walker was a stockman on the Farm in 1901 living in 14 Sutton Lane, Chiswick
Mary's Father William Mitchell was a paperhanger in 1911 living in 14 Sutton Lane, Chiswick.

Mary Mitchell is 16 on the 1901 census our Elizabeth Mary Mitchell SHOULD of been 19..... BUT when she got married to Ernest she was 6 months pregnant (with twins but one died).

Have I found her? I dont want to get over excited.....

[Robert]

Yes, that's where I found the Walkers in 1901.

It certainly looks promising - it's a bit of a coincidence otherwise. The Mary bit isn't a problem - people were sometimes listed under middle name. William has wrong occupation, which might be a problem. But, so far, the biggest obstacle is that William has to die in the next two years, and so far I have found no suitable deaths for William Mitchell, or for any other Mitchell in case HE was listed in the census under a middle name. Still, it's looking much better than it was!

One possible line of enquiry is to consult electoral rolls for that address between 1901 to 1913 and see when the name Mitchell first appears (from the slightly changed birthplaces of the children, sometime after 1908 might be a possible) also see if there was any overlap with any Mitchell/Walker males sharing the property, and see when or if William disappears from the register.

[Versa]

Hiya robert

William has wrong occupation, which might be a problem. But, so far, the biggest obstacle is that William has to die in the next two years, and so far I have found no suitable deaths for William Mitchell, or for any other Mitchell in case HE was listed in the census under a middle name. Still, it's looking much better than it was!

One possible line of enquiry is to consult electoral rolls for that address between 1901 to 1913 and see when the name Mitchell first appears (from the slightly changed birthplaces of the children, sometime after 1908 might be a possible) also see if there was any overlap with any Mitchell/Walker males sharing the property, and see when or if William disappears from the register.

3yrs prior to their address in the census of Chiswick the Mitchells had a son born in Wimbledon, 1yr prior thy had a child born in chiswick so their move must of been after the 3yr olds birth.


what we were thinking COULD of happened was that Mary Mitchell being under age for marriage and 6 months pregnant, she might of fibbed on her marriage cert? Is that even possible?

We were thinking that the Mitchell's might of disowned her (there's only Ernest's Family and friends as witness to the wedding) and as such she wrote William Mitchell as being deceased when in fact he was alive...? The farmer bit we were wondering about if again that could be a fib?

Seems an awful co-incidence that a girl of the right name with a father of the right name was living where Ernest would of been expecting his family to live when he returned home from sea....

I've had too much wine tonight lol blame my mum!

[Robert]

Hi Versa

She wasn't under age, was she? She'd have been about 18.

One other objection is, she should have been listed as domestic servant even if she was living with her folks. But that's not too serious.

I've found the Mitchells in 1901. William's age entry has varied from the 1911, so there might be a window for him to get into deaths.

The address was 8 Dryden Rd, Wimbledon. RG13/661/100/29.

[Versa]

She wasn't under age, was she? She'd have been about 18.

One other objection is, she should have been listed as domestic servant even if she was living with her folks. But that's not too serious.

I've found the Mitchells in 1901. William's age entry has varied from the 1911, so there might be a window for him to get into deaths.

The address was 8 Dryden Rd, Wimbledon. RG13/661/100/29.

Hiya Robert I thought they had to be 21 to get married without parental consent? There are a few things wrong with that Mary Mitchell but I'd like to rule her out if possible! I certainly wouldnt be surprised to find out that everything we thought we knew about her was wrong though

I've got mum searching the records for that family (trying to find her birth etc)

[Robert]

Hi Versa

Yes, I think 21 without consent, though if they knew of her pregnancy you'd think they'd be moving heaven and earth to get her made "an honest woman of."

I think maybe she is born Q3 1896 Brentford - not sure though.

[Robert]

Just wondering why this quite fertile couple's first surviving child should have been a foster child (if indeed Elizabeth was fostered). One possibility is that it was the orphaned or illegitimate child of a relative.

Another possibility is that they did indeed disown her, and put it about that she wasn't really theirs (though it's odd if she didn't hear all this till she was 60).

[Versa]

Just wondering why this quite fertile couple's first surviving child should have been a foster child (if indeed Elizabeth was fostered). One possibility is that it was the orphaned or illegitimate child of a relative.

Another possibility is that they did indeed disown her, and put it about that she wasn't really theirs (though it's odd if she didn't hear all this till she was 60).

Hiya robert still trying to find a birth for her, the Brentford birth seems to be another mitchell, this girls supposedly born in Wimbledon?

Our Mary (eliz) found out not from a parent or anything but when she went to collect her pension...

Did you need a birth cert to get married in 1913? Im puzzled how collecting a pension would lead to finding out your adopted?

[Robert]

Hi Versa

Well, not adopted but fostered. Yes I don't see how collecting the pension would do that.

Having never been married, I don't know if one had to show a birth certificate. I don't think so.

Brentford isn't that far from Wimbledon, but of course if she was fostered, then she would be under a completely different name. A look through the relevant baptism records might sort it out.