Troubles with Whitechapel

[Versa]

I've read on the boards here about JtR candidates and research that has been done on them and the confusion that it entails. People dismiss this suspect or that based on information gleaned from records...

I've seen detailed information from various sources on several ripper suspects, some of whom come from other countries and seem unremarkable but the information on them is incredibly detailed!

I have tried and tried to find information on my own great grandmother who claimed to have come from Whitechapel. My mum (who is very sound of mind) spent time with her and remembers her telling her of being born within the sound of bow bells and being from Whitechapel!

Strangely her wedding cert claims her father was a Farmer (deceased). We know that at 60 (when applying for her pension) she discovered she was fostered/adopted.

Born in 1892 and married in Brentford in 1913 it seems bizarre to me to claim to come from such an impoverished area as Whitechapel if you didn't but I cant find her at all on the 1911 or 1901 census.

Do any of you have any hints as to how to find her???? Could she of been listed under another name in the 1901 census?

[Adam Went]

Hey Versa,

Very interesting.
Is it possible that because the census was only carried out once every ten years, that your great grandmother might possibly have lived in Whitechapel for a few years in between two censuses, hence why she was never actually recorded as living in Whitechapel for one?

For instance if she moved to Whitechapel from elsewhere in 1902 and then moved out again in 1908, she would have "grown up" there but would not be listed in the 1901 or 1911 census.

Perhaps there are other family members who might know something further, or you could try searching post office directories, archive records, etc? There are others who could give much better advice on where and how to search for her but I just wondered about the aforementioned possibility.

In any case, best of luck with your research!

Cheers,
Adam.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Versa,

One small idea is that she may have been registered in those censuses under the name of her guardians, or her correct birthname. Some "foster" parents (the Adoption Act didn't come into being until 1927) also combined their own last name and the true birth name with a hyphon.

Another idea I have is that you search through all persons born in a certain quarter in Whitechapel with the first name of your grandmother, and whittle down from there. Otherewise Adam's suggestions are sound as well.

I wish you the very best of luck in your search.

The addies for the Latterday Saints and for the BMD (births, marraiges and deaths) I supply herewith, if you are not aware of them from before. Other sites like Ancestry. com are also very useful.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

help

Hello Versa. Can you give me some names/dates? Perhaps I can take a peek as schedule allows.

Cheers.
LC

[Versa]

Hiya Adam

Is it possible that because the census was only carried out once every ten years, that your great grandmother might possibly have lived in Whitechapel for a few years in between two censuses, hence why she was never actually recorded as living in Whitechapel for one?

For instance if she moved to Whitechapel from elsewhere in 1902 and then moved out again in 1908, she would have "grown up" there but would not be listed in the 1901 or 1911 census.

Yes I think this is in all likelihood what has happened, however I can't pin her down at all even outside of London

Perhaps there are other family members who might know something further

I've done my best to find anyone that might know anything about her, her remaining living son has tried very hard to be helpful but he can't provide any information other than she came from Whitechapel and was in service from the age of 14 (he thinks).

My mum who is doing the research with me remembers her as having a broad London accent but Elizabeth died when my mum was about 14 and she cant remember her ever talking about her past.

There was one person that might know more about her and that was a granddaughter that she more or less brought up but all we know is her first name and we don't know where she might be now.

you could try searching post office directories, archive records, etc?

I actually don't know how to go about searching either post office directories or which archive records I should be looking for? The rest of my family have been easy to follow so I don't have any experience in research!

Thank you for the hints and help

[Versa]

Hi Phil

One small idea is that she may have been registered in those censuses under the name of her guardians, or her correct birthname. Some "foster" parents (the Adoption Act didn't come into being until 1927) also combined their own last name and the true birth name with a hyphon.

I think she may well of been listed on the 1901 census under a different name (thats the route Im going down atm) She defiantly thought that William Mitchell was her father and she got married under the name Mitchell in 1913, she wasnt aware that she'd been adopted/fostered until she was 60.

Another idea I have is that you search through all persons born in a certain quarter in Whitechapel with the first name of your grandmother, and whittle down from there. Otherewise Adam's suggestions are sound as well.

that is worth doing although the information we have is so sketchy that I might end up having to search the whole of London, Kent and Surrey for her that way! I will give that a go though!

I wish you the very best of luck in your search.

thank you I think I'm going to need it! I might end up going blind and insane looking for her and it wont be down to solitary vices!

The addies for the Latterday Saints and for the BMD (births, marraiges and deaths) I supply herewith, if you are not aware of them from before. Other sites like Ancestry. com are also very useful.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

best wishes

Phil

Thank you we are currently using Ancestry.com for the census/BMD etc but we cant find a decent 1911 census site

[Versa]

Hello Versa. Can you give me some names/dates? Perhaps I can take a peek as schedule allows.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lyn yes of course! Im grateful for any help at all

Her name was Elizabeth Mary Mitchell born 31st January c1892 died in Cornwall 1964 (I've put circa as her death cert says she was born in 1893 but that was info provided by my grandfather and we think he might of got that wrong) her marriage cert says 1892 but she was 6 month pregnant so there's a chance she fibbed about her age.

She was married in 1913 to Ernest Walker in Brentford and puts her address as 445 Chiswick high road and lists her occupation as 'housemaid (domestic)' She lists her father as William Mitchell (deceased) occupation Farmer. Ernest's family are from Chiswick and in farming.

the witnesses are Charles Walker (Ernest's father) and F. Hof (could be Frank or Flora Hof nee Warner) we thought for a while F. Hof was a sign from the gods telling us not to bother any more lol. The Church was a baptist church.

We don't know of any siblings.

I think that's about all we know at the moment....

She's got a bit of a common name which is a pain as there are so many variants of it!

[Robert]

If it's any help I looked at the Chiswick High Rd address for 1911 and she wasn't there then, unless for some reason she was going under the name Elizabeth Phillips.

[Versa]

If it's any help I looked at the Chiswick High Rd address for 1911 and she wasn't there then, unless for some reason she was going under the name Elizabeth Phillips.

Hiya Robert

Thanks for taking a look for me! I can't imagine why she would be going under that name but I had mum suggest last night that she could be 2yr old Helga Baggins (or something like that) living with a Fredrick Mitchell who wasn't a farmer so its a better guess than that!

What is Elizabeth Phillips age? Its got to the point that I cant rule out something like that!

[Robert]

Hi Versa

She's aged 22, born Hanworth Middlesex, she's single and she's a domestic servant in the home of Mr and Mrs Goff.

I think I might have a fix on where Ernest Walker and family were in 1901, but by 1911 Ernest seems to have left home. I also have the Hofs in 1911.
But Elizabeth is very slippery to find under the name of Mitchell.

Her son was Horace Charles W, died down in Cornwall like his mum?

[lynn cates]

Mitchell

Hello Versa. I found an Elizabeth Mary Mitchell born 1893 in London. Parents were A J and E M Mitchell. Spouse was Ernest Walker. Died ca 1964 in Cornwall.

Any good?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

David

Hello Versa. Seems the lass I found had 5 children. Oldest was David.

Cheers.
LC

[Adam Went]

Hi Versa,

I think Robert, Lynn, etc are helping you out extremely well now but i'll just add as well to not get too down hearted by not being able to find your great grandmother just in census records. Census records from that era are notoriously difficult to follow, if not downright incorrect in most cases. The manner in which they were carried out has changed significantly since then.

Most sites like census records and so forth require you to be a paying member in order to see full records. Like you i'm not well read up on all of that though - we have a family genealogist and it's definitely not me .

Best of luck once again.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Versa]

Hi Robert

She's aged 22, born Hanworth Middlesex, she's single and she's a domestic servant in the home of Mr and Mrs Goff.

well I guess she's close in age :/

I think I might have a fix on where Ernest Walker and family were in 1901, but by 1911 Ernest seems to have left home. I also have the Hofs in 1911.

Ernests family are from Chiswick and before that Pirton and Ernest then joined the navy and we've been able to follow that line back fairly easily!

But Elizabeth is very slippery to find under the name of Mitchell. Her son was Horace Charles W, died down in Cornwall like his mum?

Yes Horace was her first son, she is difficult to find isn't she? thank goodness I was beginning to think it was me being a bit rubbish!

[Versa]

Hello Versa. I found an Elizabeth Mary Mitchell born 1893 in London. Parents were A J and E M Mitchell. Spouse was Ernest Walker. Died ca 1964 in Cornwall.

Hiya Lyn, I think that A J Mitchell's daughter was Ellen Marie Mitchell (or something like that) and not Elizabeth Mary? The rest of the info is right though (is that from a family tree on Ancestry.com? because it might be the information my sister put in which is wrong)