Ken Clarke - His views on Rape.

[DirectorDave]

I must admit I'm struggling to find anything wrong in what Mr Clarke has said.....

Rapists who admit their crime avoiding a victim having to testify in court should get a lesser sentence than a rapist who commits the same crime then denies it forcing their victim to take the stand.

And there is already different "Degrees" of rape as is reflected in different sentences imposed.

I also believe anyone (Alleged perpetrator or victim) should have anonymity until the trial is over.

Milliband has said Clarke should be sacked for his comments.......aye Ed anything you say pal.

[Chris]

I must admit I'm struggling to find anything wrong in what Mr Clarke has said.....

As I understand it, he was simply wrong in law when he said that sex with a consenting girl under 16 was rape. Apparently that would be the case only if the girl were under 13.

[Sister Hyde]

only if the girl is under 13??? wow that's a shock I mean, everyone knows 16 year old teens don't really think straight about what they are doing (and a lot of men take advantage of this). can't really find anything wrong in what this man said though giving lesser sentences to rapists who acknoledge doesn't seem fair to me, the sentence shouldn't be lesser, but maybe they could be exempted a little bit from humiliation by not releasing their identities, even after trial for exemple.

[Chris]

only if the girl is under 13??? wow that's a shock I mean, everyone knows 16 year old teens don't really think straight about what they are doing (and a lot of men take advantage of this).

It's still illegal if the girl is 13+, but (if I understand correctly) it is classified as indecent assault rather than rape (if consent is given, of course).

[Sister Hyde]

It's still illegal if the girl is 13+, but (if I understand correctly) it is classified as indecent assault rather than rape (if consent is given, of course).

ppppfew... corruption of a minor person, for one moment i was afraid. here I think it's 15 or 16 still.

[sdreid]

Here in the U.S. I think it's illegal under 18 in most places because a 16 or 17 year old isn't considered mature enough to be capable of giving true consent. Of course they are considered mature enough to drive a car and frequently kill us and our families.

[Sister Hyde]

Here in the U.S. I think it's illegal under 18 in most places because a 16 or 17 year old isn't considered mature enough to be capable of giving true consent. Of course they are considered mature enough to drive a car and frequently kill us.

ahahah yes that's what I meant, a 16 year old does it because she thinks it's "cool". but she doesn't really get it. The legal age to drive in the US has always shocked me it's true, i remember when I was 16 and my american friends were all telling me like "this is awesome I'm getting my license and a car as birthday present", mostly one or 2 month later they said "I crashed the car".

[Chris]

It's a sobering thought that girls could legally be married at the age of 12 in England until 1929.

Lady Margaret Beaufort was only 12 when Henry VII was conceived. It was her second marriage.

[Sister Hyde]

It's a sobering thought that girls could legally be married at the age of 12 in England until 1929.

Lady Margaret Beaufort was only 12 when Henry VII was conceived. It was her second marriage.

second marriage at 12 already??? uh... I'm wondering when she actually got her first menstruation then if she was already considered as a woman soo early as to be married twice at this age.

[DirectorDave]

It's a sobering thought that girls could legally be married at the age of 12 in England until 1929.

Lady Margaret Beaufort was only 12 when Henry VII was conceived. It was her second marriage.

Be careful not to judge history too harshly with todays values.

Given the child mortality rate in the 15th century you were doing well if you reached the age of 12.....childhood could not afford to be long.....as soon as you were able to breed you started.

[Sister Hyde]

ahahah back inn these days a 16 year old was called a "cougar"

[Sally]

I think the age of consent in the UK has been 16 since 1885. 13 for a short time before that (just a few years, I think). Before that it was either 12 or 10, nobody can seem to decide.

I understand what Clarke was trying to say, but he didn't say it very well imo, and the baying media dogs were pretty much bound to descend really.

Another storm in teacup.

[caz]

...a 16 year old does it because she thinks it's "cool". but she doesn't really get it.

Speak for yourself!

Incidentally, my sister-in-law was 16 in 1961 when she was married and pregnant with her first child. They went on to have five more and are just coming up to their 50th wedding anniversary. They now have 13 grandchildren and 2 great-grandchildren.

I'd say most of us girls know our own minds by the age of 16 and know when we are ready to give consent.

Love,

Caz
X

[Phil H]

Given the child mortality rate in the 15th century you were doing well if you reached the age of 12.....childhood could not afford to be long.....as soon as you were able to breed you started.

I don't want to high-jack this thread, but I don't think that Lady Margaret's marriage to her first husband - heir to the Duke of Suffolk was consumated. (Dynastic marriages involving a very young bride were often not consumated until the girl was known to be of right age, as it were.)

In fact, perhaps because she was physically small in stature, or it could be because of her youth, she was unable to bear any children after Henry.

Also, according to WIKIP - my other sources are at home) there is a dispute about her dayte of birth 1441 or 1443 (more likely) which would have a bearing on the question of her age when Henry was born.

Sorry to intrude,

Phil

[Sister Hyde]

Speak for yourself!

Incidentally, my sister-in-law was 16 in 1961 when she was married and pregnant with her first child. They went on to have five more and are just coming up to their 50th wedding anniversary. They now have 13 grandchildren and 2 great-grandchildren.

I'd say most of us girls know our own minds by the age of 16 and know when we are ready to give consent.

Love,

Caz
X

yes Caz, but that was a different mentality back then + even now girls get mature very quickyl when they suddenly get a child, even at 16, my grandma married and got my mother around the same age, and she's now widow of the same man, in 1961 it was the start of the end of a long era where girls were still raised to believe their roll was in the kitchen unlike now when the only thing they are taught is boys make up and so on. just look closely even at the toydolls little girls have to play now and the toy dolls WE had not so long ago, back in my childhood, the barbie dolls as "bimbo" and stupid as they were, still had something a bit "smarter", one was a vet, one was a doctor, one was a sportive, one was an explorer, one was a nurse or even a soldier, you didn't onlmy have the stupid "ballerine". Now go to your closest toy store and look at the toydolls....Barbie doesn't have a passion in life anymore, and she's washed up and got replaced by "my scene" extremly slutish dolls looking like hookers on sunset boulevard who only come with a purse and a make up set for accessories.... then we actually wonder why the new generation TENDS to be so.... shallow, and care less and less about culture or history or sciences.