Intelligent Design in Tennessee Schools

[Errata]

Yeah you've harped on this before. How everyone there is beneath you. Your rant is losing its Wow factor.

Roy

Wow... not at all what I was saying. Just that perhaps due to the increasing speed of life, or the disassociation from community, or any combination of any other factors, that there is an incredibly self involved population out there. Not selfish, self involved. And it doesn't lend itself towards changing it's worldview.

There are atheists. I respect them. They have more courage than I do. There are racists, which is not something I respect, but in some ways I understand. You asserted that never the twain met. That would be incorrect. I have never said that I am above or better than those I live with. I have made Tennessee my home for 30 years, and I love it here. If I felt that my life was not bettered here, I would move.

I don't suppose that it occurred to you that just because you are wrong it doesn't mean I am an elitist?

[ChainzCooper]

Hi Jordan,

There are certainly stories in the Bible which are clearly metaphors but I don't see this as one of them. The intent was to provide evidence for Jesus' divinity.

c.d.

Theres not going to be any evidence because this is based on faith. Either you believe it or not but if you're looking for proof you're misunderstanding the overriding message. To me its that faith, hope, and love are gifts
Jordan

[mklhawley]

Hi all,

If anyone wants to go into further detail on this subject, this is what my website is all about:

http://www.searchingfortruthwithabrokenflashlight.com/

Sincerely,

Mike

[c.d.]

Theres not going to be any evidence because this is based on faith. Either you believe it or not but if you're looking for proof you're misunderstanding the overriding message. To me its that faith, hope, and love are gifts
Jordan

I don't think that we are quite on the same page here, Jordan. I have no way of knowing if the story of Lazarus is true or not. As you point out, there is no proof, and therefore if you accept it, it has to be as a matter of faith. I was trying to point out that I think it is quite clear that the author of the story intended the reader to take it literally. In other words, the author is telling us that there was actually a man named Lazarus who actually died and who actually was raised from the dead by Jesus. This as opposed to the story being symbolic, that it is a metaphor for Lazarus being saved from sin etc.

c.d.

[Robert]

Does not one of the Gospels say that at the moment of Jesus's death the graves gave up their dead, who went abroad? I think this is meant to be taken literally.

I agree that religion is about faith, and you either have it or you don't. The trouble is, some religious people try to have the best of both worlds, trying to prove god's existence and then falling back on faith when the proofs are found less than convincing. That's rather like me saying "I object in principle to a compulsory TV licence. Besides, there's not much worth watching on the box."

[Stephen Thomas]

I go with Plato's Noble Lie Theory which says that all religions are cobbled together by the intellectual elite of any society, however primitive, in order to promote morality and social cohesion. This idea was expressed rather more recently by someone in the phrase 'if God didn't exist we would need to invent Him'.

[ChainzCooper]

I don't think that we are quite on the same page here, Jordan. I have no way of knowing if the story of Lazarus is true or not. As you point out, there is no proof, and therefore if you accept it, it has to be as a matter of faith. I was trying to point out that I think it is quite clear that the author of the story intended the reader to take it literally. In other words, the author is telling us that there was actually a man named Lazarus who actually died and who actually was raised from the dead by Jesus. This as opposed to the story being symbolic, that it is a metaphor for Lazarus being saved from sin etc.

c.d.

Whether something happened or not, whether something is 'real' or not, let me ask you this then, Does that change anything? It is meant as a guide for your life and to help you grow as a person. At the end of the day that is what counts. To break it down all the way to me its this:You can always get up and try again, if you fail you can always give it another shot. That is the beauty and simplicity of it. I guess if you or others don't get that or agree then thats fine. But I understand it. Its nice chatting with you about this subject, I think that about covers it
Jordan

[caz]

I go with Plato's Noble Lie Theory which says that all religions are cobbled together by the intellectual elite of any society, however primitive, in order to promote morality and social cohesion. This idea was expressed rather more recently by someone in the phrase 'if God didn't exist we would need to invent Him'.

Well said, Stephen. Of course, one could argue that if you can invent something it must then exist from that point on, but not before. Would God ever have existed if man had not come along and needed some incentive to get him through this 'vale of tears'? The dinosaurs could have done with Dino God on their side if they'd been blessed with the brain to invent him. They had a hell of a time - like the meek.

Love,

Caz
X

[Errata]

Well said, Stephen. Of course, one could argue that if you can invent something it must then exist from that point on, but not before. Would God ever have existed if man had not come along and needed some incentive to get him through this 'vale of tears'? The dinosaurs could have done with Dino God on their side if they'd been blessed with the brain to invent him. They had a hell of a time - like the meek.

Love,

Caz
X

I don't know... isn't there some sort of quantum anomalies or multi dimensional theory that actions affect not only the future but also the past? We invented music, so that's real. Seems only fair that inventing God would make him real. And then we can't really rule out God creating everything before he was invented. I've watched a lot of science fiction movies. They seem pretty firm on the notions of time paradoxes.

[Steadmund Brand]

Whether something happened or not, whether something is 'real' or not, let me ask you this then, Does that change anything? It is meant as a guide for your life and to help you grow as a person. At the end of the day that is what counts. To break it down all the way to me its this:You can always get up and try again, if you fail you can always give it another shot. That is the beauty and simplicity of it. I guess if you or others don't get that or agree then thats fine. But I understand it. Its nice chatting with you about this subject, I think that about covers it
Jordan

In this case, I do agree with you, i will admit I am a non-beliver, however I have no problem, and actually agree that the book can and should be used as a guide for life, in some cases...the problem I have, and this in not with you, as you explained how you take it, but with the fundementalist who will try and say "yes everything in this book is literal, and those of you who don't agree and will not follow it are less than people and deserve to be punished" that is the problem.. people who go out of their way to spread hate based on a book that should be about spreading peace and understanding...where this hatred comes from is beyond me...and it seems to be the vocal majority ( or vocal minority if you prefer, but if thats the case, the majority should stand up and shut these hate mongers up... not only for the non christian world, but also for yourselves because like it or not, you are viewed as guilty by association)

Again, this was not meant as a personal attack.. you made your point of view clear.. and I think thats great....but the pure hate in the name of Christianity must stop...

as for the actual subject if we as a country insist on teaching non science in our science class, and not distinguish the difference between scientific fact and faith then we, as a county, have no right to complain that the rest of the world is surpassing us in these fields......sorry to go on...I best go back to my Australian rules football thread... GO BRISBANE LIONS haha

[Robert]

I thought that god was supposed to exist outside time. So I don't see how he could have anything to do with the past, the present or the future.

[caz]

Will God cease to exist when the last man on earth dies off? Or will he just lose the will to exist when every last plaything he created for his strange idea of fun has kicked the bucket?

[c.d.]

I remember one of my favorite lines from "The Simpsons." Homer was a missionary preaching to some native islanders in the South Pacific. He was attempting to explain the tenets of Christianity when one of the natives asked " if God is all powerful, why does he need us to worship him?" Homer pondered this and replied "he is all powerful but he is also insecure sort of like Barbara Streisand."

c.d.

[Robert]

I hope he doesn't sing like her.

[Steven Russell]

He might indulge himself with the odd chorus of The Way We Were when reminiscing about his Old Testament high-jinks.

Steve.