Cumbria Killings Today (2 June)

[Nurse Sarah]

Hi all

Sad news, shootings have occurred in the Lakes area of the UK today, several people have been shot dead and others injured before the shooter killed himself in a wooded area.

Derrick Bird was a taxi driver and around 1030am shot the first victim in Whitehaven...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10214661.stm

[Nurse Sarah]

12 people have been shot dead...horrendous, random attacks...

[Phil Carter]

Appallingly terrible and totally tragic. My thoughts and sympathies go out to the families of the victims.


Phil

[Nurse Sarah]

Hi Phil

Me too, I can't believe how many have died...I wonder what his reason was...

[Phil Carter]

...I wonder what his reason was...

Hello Sarah,

Every time this sort of thing occurs, I think of the Elton John song, "Ticking"..

Something pushed the button inside him.

best wishes

Phil

[richardnunweek]

Hi.
This was a terrible event, and a massive trauma for all involved,its early days yet, but I would like the answer to two questions.
Is his Mother ok?
And also how was it possible to commit suicide with the weapons he carried,
the rifle was to big [ according to witnesses] and its not easy to shoot yourself with a shotgun, especially as a witness described it as large, it simply would be nigh impossible to reach the trigger [ recollections of the Freddie Mills alleged suicide here]
Calling Bob Hinton for a opinion.
Richard.

[Nurse Sarah]

Hi Phil, not heard of that particular Elton song....

Richard, good questions...it wasnt a sawn off shot gun was it?

[Ally]

I really don't know where the idea of you can't kill yourself with a rifle or shotgun came from, but I have a couple of each and I can absolutely reach the trigger while positioning the gun in a manner sufficient to off myself. (yes I hear you all chanting Do it! Do it!) I don't know what precise kind of rifle and shotgun he had, but it is not impossible for the ones I have. And I am sure that witnesses thought the gun was 20 feet long and really super big, but in the height of panic, eyewitness testimony of that sort is pretty useless.

[Graham]

I just can't understand what on earth drives a person to just randomly kill in this manner. Sadly, it's by no means unusual in this day and age.

Richard,

Freddie Mills no more killed himself than I'm a Chinaman. The gun was neatly placed on the seat beside him when his body was discovered. However, it was established that he obtained the gun himself (from a woman who ran a fairground shooting-gallery), and that he was also in serious debt; both possible reasons for a verdict of suicide to be reached.

Graham

[Ally]

Freddie Mills no more killed himself than I'm a Chinaman. The gun was neatly placed on the seat beside him when his body was discovered.

Graham

Didn't he die in a car? If I am remembering correctly. So if you shoot yourself with a rifle in a confined area like a car, where else is the rifle going to go, but down onto the seat? Define "neatly placed" when we are talking about a confined space, a stretch of seat and a long rifle? I could drop my rifle 30 times onto a carseat and I guarantee you 30 times it's going to look "neatly placed".

I just did some fast googling and apparently the reports say the rifle was found between his knees. So uhm...???

[Graham]

Didn't he die in a car? If I am remembering correctly. So if you shoot yourself with a rifle in a confined area like a car, where else is the rifle going to go, but down onto the seat? Define "neatly placed" when we are talking about a confined space, a stretch of seat and a long rifle? I could drop my rifle 30 times onto a carseat and I guarantee you 30 times it's going to look "neatly placed".

I just did some fast googling and apparently the reports say the rifle was found between his knees. So uhm...???

He was indeed shot in the backseat of his own car outside his nightclub. According to crime writer Fenton Bresler the gun was propped up against the seat beside him, not between his knees.

Graham

[Ally]

Oh according to a crime writer...well then. And the crime writer knows better than the police because....? Did he go back in his time machine and check out the scene?

[Graham]

Oh according to a crime writer...well then. And the crime writer knows better than the police because....? Did he go back in his time machine and check out the scene?

Silly woman.

The murder theory was supported by the fact that Mills had been shot directly in the right eye, a highly unusual site in the case of suicide. The fact that the eye was open when the bullet struck only added to the mystery. Professor David Wingate,who was resident medical officer at Middlesex Hospital the night Mills's body was brought in, carried out an examination. He remains convinced that someone had taken the gun off Mills and shot him with it, but he was not called to give evidence at the inquest.

From The Guardian, 2004.

Graham

[Ally]

Silly boy, that's a cute little paragraph but doesn't precisely explain the crime writers psychic revelation that the gun was on the seat beside him. And it's just as unusual for a murder victim to have his eyes open while facing down a barrel as it is a suicide. However....let's presume for a moment.

Mills goes on a hunt for a weapon. He searches high and low and finally collects a rifle by telling a story about wanting to dress up as a cowboy. Now there are two reasons to presume he wanted a weapon. One, he wanted to kill himself. Two, he wanted something for self defense.

So...wanting something for self defense, he gets a gun. Then he climbs into the backseat of his car, hands his weapon to someone, who then shoots him in the face. Okay.

And as for it being unusual for a suicide to go through the eye, it's also unusual for a murderer to shoot you once in the eye. I'd put that at about even odds. Add in with your own weapon, in your car, and with the mans reported history of health problems... suicide.

And unless the coroner was in on the alleged conspiracy, I am pretty sure he'd be able to tell angle of entry whether it went up and in, as would be probable from a suicide or straight in. Coroner said angle of entry was consistent with suicide, silly foolish boy.

[belinda]

Very sad