Leslie Van Houten should be released on parole

[DVV]

She can repent endlessly for all I care. It won't bring the victims back. She can still rot in prison forever with the others. As far as I'm concerned the only injustice done here is that Van Houten and the others weren't executed decades ago.

I realize this sounds like vengence but is there any justice at all if no spirit of vengence is included?

I don't favor releasing any paroled murderers, no matter how repentent they are or how many years or decades they've served. It's true that many are released but that doesn't justify it in my book. I'd burn 'em all.

Hi Rick,

you may think yourself harsh with that post, but trust me, you're not.
I even think you're living in a perfect world that is unknown to me.

In the world I know, my best friend has killed 4 cops in 1991. Not in California, I'll grant you that. None of the victims were famous. He never served one day in jail for that (coup d'Etat in Ethiopia at that time).

One of my schoolmates has stabbed a tourist to death on the beach. It was 25 years ago, or so. He's free. I sometimes have a drink with him.
Is he remorseful like Leslie ? Certainly not.
Still dangerous ? Perhaps. While Leslie is not. Not at all.

You may be right, and perhaps we should do like centuries ago. Kill them. Burn them. Frankly spoken, why not ? You said revenge instead of justice? Why not? No problem with me. But here you have to burn Manson before you deny parole to any of his accomplices.

Still, my problem is about Leslie's case, in 2010. Things being what they are, I can't see why she shouldn't be treated like others are treated.
And in that book, except for Manson fame, she would have been released for years.

California Lawve.

[DVV]

I sincerely think denying parole to Leslie is unjust and counterproductive.

It's just kicking words such as rehabilitation or hope or humanity out of dictionary.

And I know, they're empty words long since.

Amitiés,
David

[Rick Mattix]

She can repent endlessly for all I care. It won't bring the victims back. She can still rot in prison forever with the others. As far as I'm concerned the only injustice done here is that Van Houten and the others weren't executed decades ago.

I realize this sounds like vengence but is there any justice at all if no spirit of vengence is included?

I don't favor releasing any paroled murderers, no matter how repentent they are or how many years or decades they've served. It's true that many are released but that doesn't justify it in my book. I'd burn 'em all.

[DVV]

I have seen her interviewed on television several times the only thing she seems sorry about is getting caught

Oh no.
She's a repentant sinner/killer.

I know such things seldom happen, and some can't believe they're real. So it takes a little time. Decades.

But they happen sometimes, and it then should be a joy for the imperfect "system" we are all part of.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

She deserves as much sympathy as she showed the woman she murdered. Let her rot.

This may apply to Susan Atkins, not Leslie Van Houten.

Why do clever casebookers want to equalize all Manson familily members, whereas the case is obviously fascinating because of the different levels of guilt and responsability it suggests, brain-washing, LSD background, lost children of a wonderful and vicious decade ?

Manson is still playing. Others are too.

Leslie Van Houten is truly suffering and just can blame herself.
And she does blame herself everyday, every hour.
Good over evil, that's what she means when she stands (or rather humbly sits) for parole.

Amitiés Magpie,
David

[sdreid]

Sirhan Sirhan has be inside since 1968. He turns 66 Friday.

[DVV]

Hi Belinda,

She deserves as much sympathy as she showed the woman she murdered. Let her rot.

Nobody denies the murder was horrible.
Leslie knows it more than we do.

I do not believe she is sincerely remorseful.

You should, Belinda, for that's the truth.

I have seen her interviewed on television several times the only thing she seems sorry about is getting caught

Listen to her again, then, I beg you. Look at her. Her remorse isn't only genuine, it's even beyond what I've ever seen.


Elvis told me not to be cruel.

To a heart that's true.

Amitiés,
David

[belinda]

She deserves as much sympathy as she showed the woman she murdered. Let her rot.

I do not believe she is sincerely remorseful.

I have seen her interviewed on television several times the only thing she seems sorry about is getting caught

[DVV]

I did it because I was scared.

No, she never said so.
Never and ever.

Just read John Waters.
She confessed she felt just like "a wild cat" and willingly did what she did, frenzily.

Take the valid points, please.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

Not just because her case was famous, but because her crime was heinous, and she still refuses to accept full responsibility for it.

And under Californian law, that's enough to deny her parole.

Why don't you listen to her, read John Waters, or read my replies ?

She takes MORE responsability than she had.
What more can she say ?

As to the crime itself, here is (again) what Judge Krug said in 1980:

"They can't keep using the crime ever and ever. That turns her sentence into life without parole. If I was miss Van Houten, I wouldn't have a clue what to do at the next hearing."

So yes, that's about fame and lobbying.

Criminals far more dangerous than she is (she isn't a danger at all, this is beyond doubt) and far less remorseful are released daily.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

Sorry, that's just false.

This is taking responsibilty: "I killed two people. It was wrong and I deserve to be in jail. I am sorry"

This is Leslie: "I was under Charlie's influence. Rosemary Tate was already dead when I stabbed her (16 times), I only stabbed her because I was told to do it. She would have died anyway, my absence wouldn't have changed that. The system was out to make an example of that. I did it because I was scared, yada, yada, yada."

You're wrong, Magpie, this is not Leslie. This is those who defend her, and they have the right to say so.

I've quoted her own words regarding her responsability. And she takes full responsability.
And none of the fatal wounds was delivered by Leslie - but it doesn't matter, since she takes full responsability.

Bobby killed a drug dealer in a drug deal gone bad, and has been in prison for over 40 years. He's admitted it, he's accepted that his association with Manson means that he's never getting out--people seem to want him to endorse Bugliosi's fantasy account of events.

It wasn't a drug deal gone bad. That is Manson and Beausoleil's fabricated version. Mary Brunner and Susan Atkins explicitly deny that it was a drug burn. Both were present at Hinman's residence. It's a case of torture, then murder, for money.
Beausoleil said he had to pay the bikers, of whom he was supposedly too scared.
But once he killed Hinman, he just kept the cars, hanging around several days, then started some kind of run, until things get cool.
What things ? Not the bikers. The murder itself.
Curiously, Bobby is no more afraid of the bikers, he even didn't try to give them the cars (which was an easy way to save his life, if he is to be believed).
Then, Bobby, as I've pointed out, denies any Manson implication. Fortunately, from Atkins, Brunner, Davis and even Beausoleil original testimony, we know Manson did come to Hinman's - and badly slashed his face.
Beausoleil is thus still lying.
Leslie is not.

And Van Houten repeatedly denies having killed Rosemary Bianca...

Just check, and you will find out that, even according to the prosecution witnesses, Leslie Van Houten has always said, when at Spahn Ranch and discussing with her friends, far before they were suspected, that she had stabbed a woman that was already dead.
No wonder, since poor Mrs LaBianca had been repeatedly stabbed by both Krenwinkel and Watson.
But no matter, since Leslie wants to take full responsability.

quote (edit):
"And according the the law, they are equally guilty. Everyone who was in the LaBianca house that night as part of the attack is equally guilty of what happened. That's the way the law sees it."

False. Leslie is now serving the sentence pronounced at her third trial, in which there was no co-defendant.
She not serving a "death-penalty commuted into life term", but life term with parole, for her own participation in the LaBiancas'murder.

According to all experts, as well as to her perfect prison-records, she's suitable for parole and should have long been released.

She's no Hitler, she's no Kemper.
She's remorseful, ashamed, sincere, understanding.

If you are to keep all people like her in jail for more than 40 years, then be ready to pay more tax. Far more.
For no purpose.

I have no doubt that at the present time Leslie is a nicer person than I will ever be myself - even if I refrain from stabbing dead bodies when my guru tells me so.

Justice must be done for the LaBiancas, it hasn't to be a sadistic and purposeless revenge.

Once again, she's in jail because of Manson's fame, and it just ain't fair.

For the record, I'm not a militant against death penalty, nor a Human-Rights freak.

Parole hearings do exist in hope there is, sometimes, people like Leslie.
The more I accept her remorse, the more I hate crime.


Amitiés,
David

[Magpie]

Her sentence gives her a chance to be paroled.
She complies all criterias.
So why she shouldn't be paroled after 40 years ?
Because her case is famous ?

Not just because her case was famous, but because her crime was heinous, and she still refuses to accept full responsibility for it.

And under Californian law, that's enough to deny her parole.

[Magpie]

Hi Magpie,



That's simply false. Leslie Van Houten is truly remorseful. Moreover, she takes full responsability for what she did. Obviously, you haven't read John Waters not watched Leslie speak at her parole hearings.

Sorry, that's just false.

This is taking responsibilty: "I killed two people. It was wrong and I deserve to be in jail. I am sorry"

This is Leslie: "I was under Charlie's influence. Rosemary Tate was already dead when I stabbed her (30 times, no wait, 20 times, ah maybe it was 16 times, oh wait is was "numerous" times). Charles (Watson) was the actual killer, not me. I didn't kill Leno, I shouldn't have been charged with that. I only stabbed Rosemary because I was told to do it. Susan is more guilty than I am. Rosemary would have died anyway. I don't remember garrotting Rosemary with a lamp cord. The system was out to make an example of that. I did it because I was scared. I didn't "murder" anyone--I just "contributed to their deaths", yada, yada, yada."

Years after, Beausoleil denies the established fact that Manson came to Hinman's house and cut his face and ear (which was almost a death sentence).
In this respect, he seems still under Manson influence, and does not deserve parole.

Bobby killed a drug dealer in a drug deal gone bad, and has been in prison for over 40 years. He's admitted it, he's accepted that his association with Manson means that he's never getting out--people seem to want him to endorse Bugliosi's fantasy account of events.

Worse, in her book, Atkins denied having stabbed Sharon Tate.

And Van Houten repeatedly denies having killed Rosemary Bianca...

No. That would be saying that Manson and the girls are equally guilty, which is a complete nonsense and misunderstanding.

And according the the law, they are equally guilty. Everyone who was in the LaBianca house that night as part of the attack is equally guilty of what happened. That's the way the law sees it.

[sdreid]

Hi David,

Not that one is worse than the other but Weger beat three women to death in a robbery attempt.

Admittedly, we did let Nathan Leopold out as well as Neill Cream.

[DVV]

Hi Stan,

Heirens is a serial killer and can't be released, just as Weger apparently (whom I don't know).

I'm sure that even in Illinois many murderers, especially with mitigating circumstances, true remorse and perfect prison records, etc, are released before serving 40 years.

All benefit for Charlie's cult, as if he was not a mere vicious and insane killer, but the super-Villain he wishes to be.

The truth is that Manson and Leslie Van Houten have nothing in common.
She should be released, he should not.

Amitiés,
David