Leslie Van Houten should be released on parole

[Ally]

Magpie,

I knew I had read somewhere that she had requested to go along on the second night but I cannot find the reference. Can you link me please? I thought it was at one of her parole hearings but cannot remember which one.

[Ally]

Oh and one more thing to point out, it has only been SINCE she was asked about the ages of the victims in a 1991 parole hearing that now Van Houten makes a point of dropping their ages and the years into her public statements. Further proof that she manipulates and says what she thinks people want to hear.

[Magpie]

• You have stated that Mrs. Labianca was alive when Leslie stabbed her, Do you care to share how you know that fact?
  
  Missed this one. There's no absolute way of saying that Rosemary was alive when Leslie stabbed her, but given the number of stab wounds (42) the number of times Leslie stabbed her (around 20) the fact that 7 of the 8 fatal wounds were to Rosemary's back and 100% of Leslie's stabs were directed to that very area, it's statistically likely that at least one of Leslie's stabs was one of the fatal ones.
  
  In the final analysis however, it's irrelevant. Leslie was guilty of Rosemary's death the second she entered that house.

[Magpie]

Magpie,

I knew I had read somewhere that she had requested to go along on the second night but I cannot find the reference. Can you link me please? I thought it was at one of her parole hearings but cannot remember which one.

Here's the testimony from her parole hearing:

Q: Did you--had you asked to go prior to that or indicated--

A: No. But everything in my personality, you know, body language, I made it very clear I wanted to go.

If FreeLeslie wants to split semantic hairs and say "she never said "can I go?", that's peachy, but the fact remains that it's clear (especially given her other testimony that she expressed anger about being left out the previous night) she put herself forward as a volunteer.

Here's the link, and looky-looky who appears in the replies:

http://truthontatelabianca.com/topic/3253-leslie-vanhouten-parole-hearing-dec-28-1993/

[doris]

I would just like to point out that despite recieving a little veiled opprobrium re my piffling comment, Iam not a member of the release Van Houten camp.

All I want is for her and anyone else to be allowed access to a fair parole hearing.

And with regards to slaughtering criminals, irrespective of their crime I fail to see how anyone can deny that such a punishment is 'cruel and unusual'. Every 'civilised' country in the world refuses to kill criminals, and I think it is an enormous black mark against the normally admirable US that they continue to kill people.

I believe that the entire eye for an eye concept belongs in the dark days of history.

Even if one is happy for society to kill its criminous members my contention is that capital punisment demeans all the members of that society.
Imagine being a defense lawyer and your reward for sloppy debating skills is to consign a fellow human to death, and what about the doctors who involve themselves in the process (despite their hippocratic oath promising to preserve life) why are they not struck off? And Iam sure it must effect the most flint hearted 'screw' seeing someone they have know for years watching them march to their doom.

doris

(stands back and ducks head under the parapet)

[Ally]

Thank you Magpie. I knew I had read that she had wanted to go and that there was some reason that she had been selected due to her willingness after being left out the night before.

If FreeLeslie wants to split semantic hairs and say "she never said "can I go?", that's peachy,

FL seems to be the king of hair splitting. I love the logic of how Van Houten who only killed one is not responsible for everyone else's death, but Manson, who killed no one is responsible for them all. You can't make crazy like that up.

[DVV]

She was part of the conspiracy that resulted in Sharon Tate's death. So yes, she was associated with Sharon Tate's death, and was convicted both times of conspiracy.

Very well. Now can you tell us more about her implication ?
Did she give instructions to Tex ?
Did she send him to 10050 Cielo Drive ?
Did she give them knives and rope ?
Did she order Linda to drive ?
Has any family member ever say he was under Leslie's influence ?

As has been explained umpteen times before, in a conspiracy all conspirators are equally guilty of all actions undertaken by any member of the conspiracy. By entering the house with Tex with the intent to commit a crime, she is legally responsible for what Tex did.

Agreed.
And Leslie agrees too.

And in parole hearing after parole hearing after interview after interview that she didn't kill Rosemary and that she just stabbed a corpse a little bit. She didn't start admitting that Rosemary could have been alive when she stabbed her, but she continues to stick to the "I stabbed a corpse" bulldookery in every parole hearing.

False. She is simply telling that she thinks Rosemary was already dead, which is likely, since she had been repeatedly stabbed by Krenwinkel and Watson.

More importantly, the very first time she said so (ie: Mrs LaBianca was already dead) was just after the murder, that was not at a parole hearing.
Anyway, that doesn't make her less guilty.
She's definitely responsible for the two murders.
She knows it, and she admits it.

Accurate? Maybe not. True? You betcha.

No she's not a mass murderer.
What she did is horrible enough, though.
A quoi sert de charger la mule ?

Bulldookey. Stephen Kay has appeared at every parole hearing to argue against her release. He has stated that he can foresee a point in the future where she could be released--that is NOT the same as saying she should be.

Stephen Kay doesn't know what to think.
Trouble is that he talks too much.

Leno and Rosemary Labianca. For reasons stated above.

She hasn't stabbed Leno LaBianca, that's a fact.
She's one of his murderers.
And she knows it.

Saying the murdering scum who murdered at least 8 people are as guilty as the murdering scum who initiated the slaughter is not being a "Charlie lover". This is a pointless and despicable strawman argument.
And Ally is absolutely right because (sing along, you should know the words by now): in a conspiracy all conspirators are equally guilty of all actions undertaken by any member of the conspiracy.

Equally guilty ? Certainly not. They're all guilty, no doubt.
Still, the murders were masterminded by Manson, and this has been proven by all accounts, and has been essential for the prosecution.
Without Manson, the LaBiancas wouldn't have been killed.

Lastly, why so much hate ?
40 years in jail, that's something, no ?
If only all murderers could serve such a long time behind bars...

Amitiés,
David

[belinda]

I would say that Manson is the least guilty.

Can of of Miss Van Houtens professed remorse bring Rosemary La Bianca back to life.

No.

There is no parole from death.


Let her rot.

You have not mentioned the fact that her Lawyer wanted to use a previous history to mount an insanity defence for her for events prior to her meeting Manson

[DVV]

I would say that Manson is the least guilty.

No comment.

edit: just one, finally : Charlie's rap is still working.

[Ally]

[QUOTE=DVV;127368]

Very well. Now can you tell us more about her implication ?
Did she give instructions to Tex ?
Did she send him to 10050 Cielo Drive ?
Did she give them knives and rope ?
Did she order Linda to drive ?
Has any family member ever say he was under Leslie's influence ?

DVV. Go kill Magpie. Tie him up. Slaughter him. And then mail his head to the American embassy. Are you going to do that? No, want to know why, because you have free will and you are perfectly capable of saying no, just like she was. She WANTED to go, she chose to go and she is guilty of knowing full well what occurred at the Tate house the night before and she was ANGRY she wasn't allowed to participate. Did she go to the police when she found out? No she pouted til she got to go on the next slaughter.

Agreed.
And Leslie agrees too.

No she doesn't. And she's said so in interviews.

False. She is simply telling that she thinks Rosemary was already dead, which is likely, since she had been repeatedly stabbed by Krenwinkel and Watson.

Except for pesky things like the autopsy which proves some of her stabs were premortem. Details, details.

Anyway, that doesn't make her less guilty.
She's definitely responsible for the two murders.
She knows it, and she admits it.

And she denies it as often as she admits it. You choose to believe the admissions of guilt, I'll choose to believe her when she says she doesn't believe she was guilty of killing Mr. Labianca.

No she's not a mass murderer.
What she did is horrible enough, though.
A quoi sert de charger la mule ?

So then by your logic, Manson is not guilty of any murders correct? You believe he is innocent of all the killings and should be freed?

Stephen Kay doesn't know what to think.
Trouble is that he talks too much.

He knows enough to say she shouldn't be paroled.

Equally guilty ? Certainly not. They're all guilty, no doubt.
Still, the murders were masterminded by Manson, and this has been proven by all accounts, and has been essential for the prosecution.
Without Manson, the LaBiancas wouldn't have been killed.

And without Van Houten they wouldn't have either.

She killed more people than Manson did. So either they are all mass murderers or Manson is not. You cannot have it both ways.

Lastly, why so much hate ?

Why so much love? Did she promise you kinky sex or costumes if you get her released? Do you have naked pictures of her you sweat yourself to sleep each night.

I love how people who have lost an argument attribute it to the over emotionalism of their opponent. It has nothing to do with hate. She's a murderer. She's where she belongs.

40 years in jail, that's something, no ?
If only all murderers could serve such a long time behind bars...

It's something. Is it enough? No.

[belinda]

It's very easy for them all to blame Manson while not taking full responsibility themselves.

Linda Kasabian who drove the car on both nights refused to kill in spite of Manson repeatedly telling her to.

They made a choice.

Manson sickens me but not as much as Van Houten,Watson,Atkins and Krenwinkle

[Ally]

I agree. Those who try to absolve Van Houten of being a mass murderer while condemning Manson are hypocrites of the worst kind. Anyone who had knowledge of the crimes is guilty. You cannot absolve Van Houten of culpability in mass slaughter while pointing at Manson and saying "He did it. He's responsible for them all".

[DVV]

Belinda,
I admire Linda Kasabian, but she's not completely innocent. Rather lucky, somehow. She drove the car on both nights...and:

"Observing a white sports car ahead of them, Manson told Linda: 'At the next red light, pull up beside it. I'm going to kill the driver.'
Linda pulled up next to the car, but just as Manson jumped out, the light changed to green and the sports car zoomed away." (Bugliosi, from Kasabian testimony)

Hope that will tell you something (more) about Manson, and about how he was obeyed, even by a nice person like Linda Kasabian.

Amitiés,
David

[Ally]

Anyone else notice that when DVV has no logical or rational response to the points brought up, he posts something completely irrelevant in an attempt to distract from his own inability to argue what has been said?

[DVV]

I agree. Those who try to absolve Van Houten of being a mass murderer while condemning Manson are hypocrites of the worst kind. Anyone who had knowledge of the crimes is guilty. You cannot absolve Van Houten of culpability in mass slaughter while pointing at Manson and saying "He did it. He's responsible for them all".

It's becoming strange.
Nobody is saying Leslie is innocent.
But it has been proven beyond doubt that Manson masterminded the murders.

Amitiés,
David