Where have all the accents gone?

[Limehouse]

We have just had a lovely two day break in Suffolk, returning to some of the places I visited as a small child. In those days, I was always trilled to hear my father's relatives' Suffolk accents and those of the local people I met during our visits. I also remember being intrigued by visits from Suffolk cousins to London and hearing the way they pronounced words - so different from the harsh London accents around me.

So, I was very disappointed to find I could detect hardly any Suffolk accents at all, not even in the rather remote villages around Dunwich. I listened in shops, in pubs, in restaurants, in the streets - but to no avail. I listened to children, to older people, to middle-aged people, to tradesmen - but sadly, hardly any Suffolk accents could be heard. It seems everyone speaks with a slightly moderated London accent - not Cockney - but neutral.

On the way home we stopped off in Diss - just inside Norfolk - and hey presto! In a charity shop I heard quite a young man with a regional Norfolk accent.

Northern regional accents do not seem affected - but what on earth has happened to out regional accents in the south east? Has anyone else noticed this?

[Supe]

Limehouse,

I would imagine television has a lot to do with it, though it is strange that those past 30 also have, to your ears, lost their old accents.

Glad that there were still accents in Norfolk as the old "Norfolk whine" was largely responsible for what was the original regional accent of Boston and, though outmigration, much of New England. That original accent has faded a bit and was modified as well by the great influx of the Irish in the 19th C.

Don.

[John Savage]

Hi Limehouse,

Yes I too have noticed and lament the dying of regional accents but also beleive the North of England to be similarly affected. Up here in God's own county it was once possible to place someone from the various towns and cities of Yorkshire, and in my home town even which side of town they came from.

As Don says, television has much to answer for, but as well as this people travel about the country more, and also spread commuter land further into the Home Counties, thus the old accents wither and die. Is there anyone who can still speak with a Hertfordshire accent?

On the other hand language moves on, not too long ago I was on the tube travelling from Heathrow to King's Cross and was amazed, and amused, to hear a "posse" of white suburban teenagers talking with something that resembled a Jamacain accent! Innit?

Rgds
John

[The Good Michael]

In Korea, probably because of having to speak slowly and enunciate so that Korean students might understand, everyone slowly changes their speech and eventually, we all sound like we're from central Canada or the Midwest of the U.S.. Even Aussies and Brits sound somewhat American after two or three years here, or so I surmise. In India, many young women are trained to speak American English, which means, Midwestern. I don't mind it all really. Change is normal, and inevitable. I look forward to the day when we all speak Spanish.

Mike

[Limehouse]

Hi Limehouse,

Yes I too have noticed and lament the dying of regional accents but also beleive the North of England to be similarly affected. Up here in God's own county it was once possible to place someone from the various towns and cities of Yorkshire, and in my home town even which side of town they came from.

As Don says, television has much to answer for, but as well as this people travel about the country more, and also spread commuter land further into the Home Counties, thus the old accents wither and die. Is there anyone who can still speak with a Hertfordshire accent?

On the other hand language moves on, not too long ago I was on the tube travelling from Heathrow to King's Cross and was amazed, and amused, to hear a "posse" of white suburban teenagers talking with something that resembled a Jamacain accent! Innit?

Rgds
John

Hi everyone,

When we were discussing this over the weekend my husband and I thought that television and movement of people around the south east were factors.

Of course John, you would notice the subtle changes in accent when you are up north, but to me, I can still detect they're from the north!

Where I now live, there is still a distinct Fenland accent, but it is hardly noticeable in the youngsters unless they come from towns like March (Maaaach).

Interesting you should note the Jamaican twang in all youngsters from around London. I've noticed this too and it has been the subject of a study (I think it was at Lancaster university) which concluded that it was the result of certain music and the mixing of youngsters from diverse backgrounds such as Asian, African, Afro-Carribean and European.

[Sam Flynn]

It's happened in the last 15-20 years in Wales, too - much to my chagrin. It's bad enough (from a personal perspective) that the Welsh language has declined, but to lose the way in which English is - was - spoken in these parts is doubly sad.

Much of it is pure affectation, evidence of which may be gleaned by the rather unique situation we have in Wales of bilingual sports commentators and presenters, who double up between the English-speaking BBC Wales television and the Welsh-speaking media (BBC Radio Cymru and the S4C television channel). When commentator "A" is speaking of the Argentine/Italian rugby players Felipe Contepomi and Mirco Bergamasco on BBC Cymru/S4C their names are pronounced with the typical Welsh (and authentic Latin) "flat vowels" and rolled R's: Felipeh Contepohmi and Meerrcoh Berrgamascoh. The same commentator, on the English-speaking media, reverts to the (inauthentic) "FelipAY ContepOWmi" and "MURcOW BURgamascOW". Ordinary people will dine on "behked potehtohs" and wash it down with "cohk" at "hohm", but when away from "hOWm" they'll order "bAYked potAYtOWs" and "cOWk".

I can understand those who've lived away from home for a considerable time acquiring their adopted accent over many years, but I'm talking about those who seldom set foot outside where they were born (except for holidays) developing an overnight "twang" or, worse, switching the way they speak from one accent to another to apparently sound "better". It's little more than a self-conscious denial of one's roots, which I find desperately sad

[John Bennett]

I did a Ripper tour for a school from Suffolk last week. Not an accent in sight.

But can I get rid of my own dodgy Hackney / Norf London accent? No!

[John Bennett]

It's happened in the last 15-20 years in Wales, too - much to my chagrin. It's bad enough (from a personal perspective) that the Welsh language has declined, but to lose the way in which English is - was - spoken in these parts is doubly sad.

(

Oh don't be so despondent, Gareth. Come by 'ere now in a minute and cutch up with your Ripper buddies. (My ex was Welsh, I've got the lingo!)

[Sam Flynn]

Oh don't be so despondent, Gareth. Come by 'ere now in a minute and cutch up with your Ripper buddies.

Thanks, John... the Casebook is a place in which I invariably find succour. Several succours, on a good day

[Suzi]

Hi John-
There's lovely to year someone saying Coom cooch up by year (Is it cooch or cutch???)

My 'Ampshire ramblings can sometimes slip in a cockney 'nai wot oi mean' especially when called upon to swear I wuz born dahn the road from Bow Bells- especially if there's a free pint in it

Mind you the old Pompey takes some beating- I miss it from mi' teachin' days-although I'm still in a school this lot seem to have lost the old 'Come dahn moi ace- got a new chavvy- it's well kushti' ..... sadly........... Mind you I still bump into 'em at the Tesco 'Old Boys Association' to the line of 'Wheeeeeeeeee Miss you used ta be moi old Art teacha'.... (I point out that Yes -I did have the priviledge of teaching them Art (!!!!!) - but- I never was- or will admit to- being old!!)

Suz x

[John Bennett]

Hi John-
There's lovely to year someone saying Coom cooch up by year (Is it cooch or cutch???)

To be honest, Suzi, I don't know how it's spelt. Maybe Gareth could help here.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

Interesting, very interesting...

Throughout the Finnish tv-history, there has also been talks about tv shaping off the edges of local accents and dialects here...

If anyone wants to know something about the Finnish language nuances; in the eastern province called Savo the listener comes responsible (if I have understood my Irish friend right, it's the same thing with the Western Irish! ), while people in the province of Häme are known for their very slooow way of speaking...

OK, back to the English accents: I wonder, where are the Americans here, talking about their accents.

There are some interesting things: foist of all, if I have understood the Marx brothers right, newyorkers speak the foist word like that. Then, if I remember correctly, I can be shooah, that Kennedy pronounced the third word with that kind of viga...

All the best
Jukka

[John Bennett]

In my youth, I remember TV announcers and newsreaders having what we could call 'BBC World Service' voices. I think of people like Robert Dougal, Richard Baker and Kenneth Kendal.

My mum used to moan about the regional accents appearing a few years back, but then she is incredibly reactionary(!).

But then we did have Michael Parkinson and Russell Harty in the old days.

[Suzi]

To be honest, Suzi, I don't know how it's spelt. Maybe Gareth could help here.

There we are then.........Come in cariad.......

Oh and of course us girlies all aspire to our Celia Johnson (as in Brief Encounter*)...there again there's Thora Hird's perfect 'Oh Fraid' to Freddy Frinton (blessim!)

* Talking of that wonderful film- I love the woman in the cafeteria on THE station who has the immortal 'Hai dewnt knaew to hwat yew refar' Heeeeeeeee heeeeeeeee

Gawd remind me never to attempt to write in 'the venacular'!! -It takes for ever and you sit 'ere talking out loud to yourself in bizarre accents and then attempt to spell them!!!

(Hew kin tell it's 'alf term caint ya' moi babes!)

[steje73]

I'm in an odd place accent-wise. Too far North for Yorkshire, too far South for Geordie, so if any of yee canny bairns can place County Durham in the accent map afore it does me heid in (and so on) I'd appreciate that. We seem to have a mix but nothing distinctive.