On The Trail Of The Forgers

[Omlor]

"Well I'm back folks and I can see that Omlor now has at least three impressed fans (or should that be impressionable?): Maria, Victoria and Dougie, no less.
Wow.
Not bad going at all after only a few years."

As an opening to a post, the pettiness of this is not just remarkable but also, historically speaking, sadly typical. It is just the sort of comment that typifies Diary World and all that is a sad joke here.

The last bit of the post, addressed to me, is similarly goofy. It needs only a brief remark or two in response.

I'm certainly not going to rehash the whole McCrone fiasco yet again. Later, if it matters, when another testing process did reach the point of discussing prices I made it clear that I was willing to pay 100% of the costs.

But the raising of the issue here is fascinating. Why such a question is asked by Keith in response to a simple e-mail asking him about his public claim to have secret evidence concerning the diary's origins remains a mystery. However, it is a perfect example of just how discussions around here so often work. I send Keith an email asking three or four simple, direct questions. Not only are they not answered, but instead you get talk of everything else -- past e-mail histories from years ago having nothing to do with that evidence, questions about finances for tests that never took place and all the rest -- a boatload of irrelevancies that all serve only to muddy up the fact that, as everyone who reads the exchange can still see, the questions asked were simply not answered.

Then, of course, we get more vague warnings from Caroline about the alleged "ongoing investigation" (my, how the years do pass) being somehow "compromised" if anyone were even to dare to breathe a word of even why no one should breathe a word.

It's enough to make even the most jaded secret agent cackle, amused at the pompous self-importance and the melodramatic language of whispered catastrophe.

Honestly, sometimes the lengths people go here to defend all the secrecy (while at the same time blabbing in public and online about the alleged secret goods anyway) is staggering.

It's a strange game. It's been going on for over a decade.

I doubt it is going to end any time soon.

Never surprised,

--John

[Victoria]

All you need is Love

Welcome back Caz,

hope you had a good holiday, and you obviously did
not forget us all here.
Thank you for this mornings entertainment, a nice start
to the day.

As a now 'certified' member of the Omlor fan club, I feel
it is ok to rewrite two of his quotes from yesterday, in
case any other would be members missed them.

"good and true men and women shall gather in the spirit of
circular craziness that is our wont ..."

"Here at Diary World we love all you people. Honestly, we do.
Even those with whom we fight and argue, even those we don't love,
we really love. Our lives would be just a bit emptier without you."

That last one reminds me of the Beatles, 'All you need is Love'

love to all,
Victoria

[dougie]

The embossed membership cards are in the mail?

[downonwhores]

Diary

Hey everybody,

Hope u are having a good time. I know that the Diary itself repeats alot of the newspaper mistakes like the "farthings" incidient but is there any source or website that "really" investigates the authenticity of the diary and points out all the mistakes. Most books I read maybe have 1 paragraph or 2. I would like a detailed analysis? Any pointers?

[Graham]

Quiet on this thread these days, isn't it?

Are Omlor and Maria on holiday, or what?

Graham

PS: I think the Diary is 100% genuine and that Maybrick done it.

[Victoria]

Hi Graham,

The lengths that some people will go to just to get
a response ...

nobody here believes .. that you believe, what you just
wrote .. "I think the Diary is 100% genuine and that Maybrick
done it."

We all know that you know, like the rest of us, that there is
no way in hell .. that the diary is genuine.
Anyone that thinks that, is crazy.

Maybe you are feeling a little responsible for 'encouraging'
downonwhores to post here for answers.
I think Maria is around, not sure about our experts .. Caz and
Omlor though.

Hi downonwhores,

the post that you wrote on that other thread, if you had repeated
that here .. you would probably have got all the answers ..
because this is the pub where the experts on that subject, often
call in for refreshment and 'a good time'.

Victoria

[Graham]

Hi Victoria,

I only wrote that to try and rouse people out of their summer slumbers! Worked in your case!

James Maybrick most definitely wasn't the author of the Diary. His brother wrote it....no, stop it, Graham.

Cheers,

G

[Victoria]

Yes Graham, it worked in my case .. but unfortunately no
summer slumbers here to be out lazing in the sun, enjoy it while
you can, you lot over there .. you know it won't last long!

It's grey, drizzly and cold here, only 16%, reminds me of London,
this is winter here .. and also good for slumbers.

cheers also,
Victoria

ps. How about Steven Park?

[The Good Michael]

PS: I think the Diary is 100% genuine and that Maybrick done it.

Graham,

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here and deciding that you tried a concise version of a sentence. I think you meant: I think the Diary is 100% genuine as a modern forgery, and that Maybrick done it (it meaning: had sex).

Is this correct? I feel my leg being pulled so much that I can only walk on sloped ground with the same leg always elevated.

Mike

[caz]

Later, if it matters, when another testing process did reach the point of discussing prices I made it clear that I was willing to pay 100% of the costs.

In that case, Omlor, in the spirit of not being the sort of chap who would ever say anything publicly unless you were prepared to say it all, you can reveal what those costs were estimated to be. Obviously you can provide a rough maximum figure, since nobody in their right mind promises to cough up 100% of a completely unknown amount.

It's enough to make even the most jaded secret agent cackle, amused at the pompous self-importance and the melodramatic language of whispered catastrophe.

Gosh, it’s amazing how the written word can sometimes conjure up an image that’s the total opposite of what the writer presumably intended.

The image here is not that of a jaded secret agent, cackling to himself before shaking his head and getting on with better things, but that of an embittered Wicked Fairy, not invited to the Christening of a baby she can’t stand the sight of anyway, and completely unable to move on.

Now how did that happen, I wonder?

Love,

Caz
X

[Omlor]

Caroline returns once again, I see. And once again she prefers to read her own desires into what I have written rather than read what I have written.

Fortunately, however, in doing so she says nothing new and adds nothing to the conversation. So I needn't bother correcting her.

I like it when things are this easy.

--John

PS: I think the amount of the costs of the proposed tests was in the three to five hundred dollar range, depending on what needed to be done as things proceeded, if I remember correctly. I would have happily paid a good deal more than that, though. Can I now assume that since I have answered the completely unrelated question that Keith asked of me, that Keith will do the same and answer the simple and direct questions asked of him regarding his public pronouncements? I'll bet anyone here that the answer is a decisive "no." Apparently, these things only work in one direction for some.

[Maria]

Except that it is not necessary to do further testing, since Melvin Harris already did that a long time ago and found chloroacetamide in the ink a modern component. Melvin Harris has been the only person to get a sample of the ink whilst unbeknown to the owner Robert Smith, when this one was trying to sell the rights to Warner Publications and surrepticiously the samples were sent to be analysed with Analysis For Industry who only charged Melvin 40 pounds to do it and the scientist there, was a good friend of Joseph McCrone.

Maria

[caz]

Hi Maria,

Do you not wonder, in that case, why John would have 'happily paid a good deal more than' $500 for further tests, if £40 of Melvin's money proved back in 1994 that the diary was written with modern ink?

Incidentally, let's see if you are right about John being too busy right now to give a simple yes/no answer over on the Obarmy thread.

John,

I wonder if you could do Maria the smallest of favours and nip to the Obama thread when you get a spare second to clear something up. She is under the impression that before the casebook crash you had occasion to reason with me over my political views. I have no recollection of our having any kind of disagreement, since I discuss the subject even more rarely than you do and my views - at least on Iraq, Afghanistan and terrorist attacks - are very much on a par with your own and always have been.

PS: I think the amount of the costs of the proposed tests was in the three to five hundred dollar range, depending on what needed to be done as things proceeded, if I remember correctly. I would have happily paid a good deal more than that, though. Can I now assume that since I have answered the completely unrelated question that Keith asked of me, that Keith will do the same and answer the simple and direct questions asked of him regarding his public pronouncements? I'll bet anyone here that the answer is a decisive "no." Apparently, these things only work in one direction for some.

You’ve lost me here, John.

Do you mean you have answered one of Keith’s questions? If so, which one, and did you email him direct or can your answer be found and extracted from one of your posts here?

This is what you wrote concerning your offer to pay 100% of the costs of ‘the proposed tests’:

I'm certainly not going to rehash the whole McCrone fiasco yet again. Later, if it matters, when another testing process did reach the point of discussing prices I made it clear that I was willing to pay 100% of the costs.

This is becoming rather confusing because Keith’s questions concerning diary tests all relate to your personal involvement with the McCrone Group. So how much ‘later’ did this ‘other’ testing process reach the point of discussing prices? What were these 'proposed tests' exactly? You resigned from the McCrone ‘fiasco’ very early on, and I didn't think you managed to elicit any kind of testing proposal. In fact, I don't recall you obtaining a single detail about any testing processes or how much they might cost. Did you pass the information on to the diary owner when you received it? If not, why not? I'm at a loss to know how these tests could have got underway if he never got to hear the details.

Or are you talking about another testing initiative entirely, long after the McCrone one bit the dust?

Here are all of Keith’s (largely outstanding) queries again, to refresh your memory:

You and I were last in contact precisely four years ago when, in what I took to be a friendly and constructive exchange of information, I attempted to elicit from you the sequence of events which had led to the breakdown of the diary tests with the McCrone Group, which you had initiated. As I recall, (and like you I will have these emails on file), you backed off my questions, as you considered there was no point in trying to identify where it had all gone wrong and why…

…So, why should you be bothered, four years down the line, with what I have uncovered? Why should you even believe me?

…What I am mildly curious about is why you should at all be bothered about the date of creation of this journal if, as you have ruled, it is of modern origin? Why not just walk away from it ,as most of my colleagues have, resting on scholarship, common sense and a proper historical reading of the document? Might it give you a problem if ink met paper prior to 1987-89?

…This response to your email of course will not satisfy you but if you had shown yourself more willing to work with me, four years ago, trying to determine what went wrong with the McCrone Group - and possibly it had something to do with you realising that this type of operation is extremely time consuming and expensive and you'd rather delegate the responsibility to somebody else - then I might have been more forthcoming. How much, incidentally, were you personally prepared to invest financially in these tests and how proportionate would that figure have been to the final cost?

Don't worry if you are too busy to post any kind of response for the time being. I'm sure this can wait. But when you do get time, I'd be obliged if you could do it after solving Maria's little problem on the Obama thread.

Love,

Caz
X

[Maria]

Caz:

At the time, John was looking for a partner to help out with the tests, so he approached Peter, John was told by Robert Smith in no uncertain way NO. They even got angry with John for daring to suggest Peter, even though Peter was happy to do it. So Robert Smith suggested Paul Begg. Begg was supposed to make contact with McCrone. Six months later, we went down to London for the Patty Cornwell show where Peter, Ivor and others participated and during that time, I took the opportunity to casually ask Paul Begg how was he getting on with the McCrone negociations, to my surprise, he told me that even though he had written an email to McCrone, he never got a reply from McCrone.

Intrigued I told Peter about it, Peter as curious as ever, phoned McCrone who told him all the tests that were available and Peter wrote them all down. Then he wrote to Casebook to say that he had had no trouble at all in getting all the information if Paul Begg cared to write to him. At this point, you must realize that Peter was hurt because he had been dumped of the testing and he was replaced by Paul Begg. Anyway, after writing that in Casebook Peter was accussed of being " undiplomatic " and " rude " when he had actually gone out of his way to call McCrone with the testing details and asked Paul to contact him. Paul Begg never contacted him, so as Peter was not officially approved to do anything by the owner of the diary, there it stayed. Joseph McCrone by the way, died shortly before Melvin Harris.

Yesterday Peter and my son appeared on T.V. in a re-run of the 15 part series and we are currently on negociatiations for the third series which has already been approved by the BBC. If everything sounds o.k. for us, the three of us will be appearing... and the filming will be starting in September, ( next month ) it will probably take 6 months like the last time, so I won´t have time to appear here, I´m afraid.

Maria

About the 40 pounds that Melvin paid, I do not think John was or is aware of that.

[Omlor]

Simply incredible.

Upon Caroline's recommendation, I write a clear and direct e-mail to Keith Skinner asking him only about his public claim to have secret evidence that would prove the diary came from Battlecrease house. As she suggests, I ask him directly and in a straightforward manner what this evidence is and why he refuses to make it public or even to explain why he won't make it public despite his having announced in a public forum what conclusions he thinks it affords him.

What do we get in response? All this nonsense about unrelated and ancient history.

Does anyone really wonder why?

The games never end.

And incidentally, my earlier post was quite clear. I said, and I'll say again... I'm not going to rehash the entire McCrone fiasco or argue with Caroline's strange attempts to rewrite the past. I was clearly referring to a different testing proposal when I said that later, when "another testing process" (what was so confusing about that) did reach the stage of discussing costs, I was more than willing to pay 100% of those costs (and would have happily paid a good deal more than was being asked).

I don't find that confusing in any way.

Of course, my answering these questions will do no good. We still won't get any information about the alleged super secret squirrel evidence.

It's all a diversion.

In the end nothing will change and the ridiculous game playing and hinting and hiding nonsense will continue and there will be nothing real and nothing new.

Same as it ever was,

--John

PS: I have no desire to discuss anything on the "Obama" thread.