Supreme Court to Hear Case of Bakery That Refused to Bake Cake for Same Sex Marriage

[c.d.]

"But I'd still like to see them exposed and ridiculed for their stupidity and to lose business as a result."

Hello Caz,

I can certainly sympathize with this point of view but seeing the baker interviewed he did seem like a nice person and did attempt to offer other accommodations. The florist lady seemed nice as well. It is too bad that it has come down to this. Such is modern life.

c.d.

[c.d.]

You have to wonder about the role of religion in all of this. Would the baker have really cared if two people of the same sex were getting married if not for some book written thousands of years ago?

c.d.

[GUT]

Agree totally, and with the folks who would not want to force someone to cook food they don't want to prepare. That's not really a good idea, either.

When I read the article someone provided a link to, I noticed that one of the Supreme Court Justices had pointed out something interesting: At the time the baker refused to bake the cake, gay marriage was not legal in the state. In effect, the baker was asked to participate in something that was still on the books as illegal. Wonder if that will have any weight?

I think the solution hinges on the request for special services. A small business owner can refuse special orders -- without having to provide any explanation.

This is a delicate situation that I hope we can find a way to handle with respect for each other.

Was it illegal, or just not legal.

[Ally]

In effect, the baker was asked to participate in something that was still on the books as illegal. Wonder if that will have any weight?

No, because I can buy a wedding cake for a cute ceremony where a five year old pretends to marry her two dogs or two barbies which aren't legal marriages either.

Having a mock ceremony isn't illegal. It just confers no legal benefits. There's a difference between something not being legal, and actually being illegal.

[curious]

The muslim caterer gets to offer a menu of what services they do and do not provide. No outside force can come in and demand you make something not on your menu.

The way to respect everyone is: if a baker disagrees with legal marriages in this country, don't make wedding cakes, just like the muslim baker doesn't cook pork products.

End of problem.

Agree totally, and with the folks who would not want to force someone to cook food they don't want to prepare. That's not really a good idea, either.

When I read the article someone provided a link to, I noticed that one of the Supreme Court Justices had pointed out something interesting: At the time the baker refused to bake the cake, gay marriage was not legal in the state. In effect, the baker was asked to participate in something that was still on the books as illegal. Wonder if that will have any weight?

I think the solution hinges on the request for special services. A small business owner can refuse special orders -- without having to provide any explanation.

This is a delicate situation that I hope we can find a way to handle with respect for each other.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Abby,

I’m certain that you’re right

[Abby Normal]

I certainly wouldn’t want to eat a cake that someone had been forced against their will, for whatever reason, to make for me

Hi HS
I wouldn't either, and I'm sure they don't. I think theyre probably legally escalating for the principle of it and for future application (fairness).

[Herlock Sholmes]

I certainly wouldn’t want to eat a cake that someone had been forced against their will, for whatever reason, to make for me

[caz]

The muslim caterer gets to offer a menu of what services they do and do not provide. No outside force can come in and demand you make something not on your menu.

The way to respect everyone is: if a baker disagrees with legal marriages in this country, don't make wedding cakes, just like the muslim baker doesn't cook pork products.

End of problem.

Exactly, Ally.

If bakers want to make money out of flogging wedding cakes, it should be none of their business who is actually getting married assuming it's a legal union. If they don't want to flog wedding cakes for same sex marriages, tough. They needn't offer the service at all. It's not like there aren't a million other excuses and occasions for people to want a special cake. I'd have one made right now with "Happy Monday Afternoon" written on it if it wouldn't play such havoc with my efforts to squeeze into my Christmas party frocks.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

It’s a tough one, but I’m leaning towards the gay couple on this one.

Although if I were gay and this happened to me, I wouldn’t want anything to do with the owner, his business etc, and move on. But I suppose they are doing it for the principal of it and for future situations.

I agree with you, Abby.

There's also the little matter of why you'd want to force someone to make food or drink for you if that person is reluctant because they happen to have a personal problem with your sexuality, religion, hair colour or whatever. I was brought up to believe it's never wise to upset the person with the power to secretly spit in your soup - or worse.

If someone wanted to refuse me one of the services or products they openly offer, on the grounds of who I am or what I believe in, I wouldn't want to give them my custom. Similarly if they were okay with serving me but refusing to serve others, I hope I'd walk out and take my custom elsewhere. But I'd still like to see them exposed and ridiculed for their stupidity and to lose business as a result.

Love,

Caz
X

[Ally]

Or should a Muslim caterer be required to make sausage balls for a brunch? Would they be required to cook bacon recipes, etc. There has to be a way to respect everyone . . .

The muslim caterer gets to offer a menu of what services they do and do not provide. No outside force can come in and demand you make something not on your menu.

The way to respect everyone is: if a baker disagrees with legal marriages in this country, don't make wedding cakes, just like the muslim baker doesn't cook pork products.

End of problem.

[Abby Normal]

It’s a tough one, but I’m leaning towards the gay couple on this one.

Although if I were gay and this happened to me, I wouldn’t want anything to do with the owner, his business etc, and move on. But I suppose they are doing it for the principal of it and for future situations.

[curious]

Isn't this the case where a young employee accepted the order, but once the owners realized the cake was for a gay wedding, they then turned it down?

[John G]

Like so many US Supreme Court cases these days- a Court sharply divided on ideological lines- it looks like the decision will be determined by Anthony M Kennedy's swing vote: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/u...iage-cake.html

[John G]

During oral argument the justices were asking about a message that you don't agree with. What if someone came into a Jewish bakery and requested a cake with a message that said we need another Holocaust? Should the Jewish baker be required by law to make it? These are tough questions.

c.d.

Would a baker be entitled to refuse to bake a cake for someone on account of their race or religion? There is, of course, the Civil Rights Act, 1964, but this legislation only applies to public accommodation, which includes "any restaurant, cafeteria, lunch room, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises..."