Supreme Court to Hear Case of Bakery That Refused to Bake Cake for Same Sex Marriage

[Abby Normal]

It’s a tough one, but I’m leaning towards the gay couple on this one.

Although if I were gay and this happened to me, I wouldn’t want anything to do with the owner, his business etc, and move on. But I suppose they are doing it for the principal of it and for future situations.

[Ally]

Or should a Muslim caterer be required to make sausage balls for a brunch? Would they be required to cook bacon recipes, etc. There has to be a way to respect everyone . . .

The muslim caterer gets to offer a menu of what services they do and do not provide. No outside force can come in and demand you make something not on your menu.

The way to respect everyone is: if a baker disagrees with legal marriages in this country, don't make wedding cakes, just like the muslim baker doesn't cook pork products.

End of problem.

[caz]

It’s a tough one, but I’m leaning towards the gay couple on this one.

Although if I were gay and this happened to me, I wouldn’t want anything to do with the owner, his business etc, and move on. But I suppose they are doing it for the principal of it and for future situations.

I agree with you, Abby.

There's also the little matter of why you'd want to force someone to make food or drink for you if that person is reluctant because they happen to have a personal problem with your sexuality, religion, hair colour or whatever. I was brought up to believe it's never wise to upset the person with the power to secretly spit in your soup - or worse.

If someone wanted to refuse me one of the services or products they openly offer, on the grounds of who I am or what I believe in, I wouldn't want to give them my custom. Similarly if they were okay with serving me but refusing to serve others, I hope I'd walk out and take my custom elsewhere. But I'd still like to see them exposed and ridiculed for their stupidity and to lose business as a result.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

The muslim caterer gets to offer a menu of what services they do and do not provide. No outside force can come in and demand you make something not on your menu.

The way to respect everyone is: if a baker disagrees with legal marriages in this country, don't make wedding cakes, just like the muslim baker doesn't cook pork products.

End of problem.

Exactly, Ally.

If bakers want to make money out of flogging wedding cakes, it should be none of their business who is actually getting married assuming it's a legal union. If they don't want to flog wedding cakes for same sex marriages, tough. They needn't offer the service at all. It's not like there aren't a million other excuses and occasions for people to want a special cake. I'd have one made right now with "Happy Monday Afternoon" written on it if it wouldn't play such havoc with my efforts to squeeze into my Christmas party frocks.

Love,

Caz
X

[Herlock Sholmes]

I certainly wouldn’t want to eat a cake that someone had been forced against their will, for whatever reason, to make for me

[Abby Normal]

I certainly wouldn’t want to eat a cake that someone had been forced against their will, for whatever reason, to make for me

Hi HS
I wouldn't either, and I'm sure they don't. I think theyre probably legally escalating for the principle of it and for future application (fairness).

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Abby,

I’m certain that you’re right

[curious]

The muslim caterer gets to offer a menu of what services they do and do not provide. No outside force can come in and demand you make something not on your menu.

The way to respect everyone is: if a baker disagrees with legal marriages in this country, don't make wedding cakes, just like the muslim baker doesn't cook pork products.

End of problem.

Agree totally, and with the folks who would not want to force someone to cook food they don't want to prepare. That's not really a good idea, either.

When I read the article someone provided a link to, I noticed that one of the Supreme Court Justices had pointed out something interesting: At the time the baker refused to bake the cake, gay marriage was not legal in the state. In effect, the baker was asked to participate in something that was still on the books as illegal. Wonder if that will have any weight?

I think the solution hinges on the request for special services. A small business owner can refuse special orders -- without having to provide any explanation.

This is a delicate situation that I hope we can find a way to handle with respect for each other.

[Ally]

In effect, the baker was asked to participate in something that was still on the books as illegal. Wonder if that will have any weight?

No, because I can buy a wedding cake for a cute ceremony where a five year old pretends to marry her two dogs or two barbies which aren't legal marriages either.

Having a mock ceremony isn't illegal. It just confers no legal benefits. There's a difference between something not being legal, and actually being illegal.

[GUT]

Agree totally, and with the folks who would not want to force someone to cook food they don't want to prepare. That's not really a good idea, either.

When I read the article someone provided a link to, I noticed that one of the Supreme Court Justices had pointed out something interesting: At the time the baker refused to bake the cake, gay marriage was not legal in the state. In effect, the baker was asked to participate in something that was still on the books as illegal. Wonder if that will have any weight?

I think the solution hinges on the request for special services. A small business owner can refuse special orders -- without having to provide any explanation.

This is a delicate situation that I hope we can find a way to handle with respect for each other.

Was it illegal, or just not legal.

[c.d.]

You have to wonder about the role of religion in all of this. Would the baker have really cared if two people of the same sex were getting married if not for some book written thousands of years ago?

c.d.

[c.d.]

"But I'd still like to see them exposed and ridiculed for their stupidity and to lose business as a result."

Hello Caz,

I can certainly sympathize with this point of view but seeing the baker interviewed he did seem like a nice person and did attempt to offer other accommodations. The florist lady seemed nice as well. It is too bad that it has come down to this. Such is modern life.

c.d.

[curious]

Was it illegal, or just not legal.

I don't know.

Ally makes a great point.

However, gay rights are a major cultural change that is happening very quickly. In many places, participating in acts of gay love have actually been illegal and people have been put in prison. I have a feeling that mostly the laws were not enforced, but they were still on the books in some places.

I don't know what the real status was in the location at the time of the incidence. Maybe PC Dunn has a grasp of that. Isn't he the one who lives in the area?

I found it interesting that one of the justices mentioned the point that gay marriage was not legal in that state at the time of the incidence.

I am only recently beginning to understand the fear some of my gay friends have expressed. And maybe that's some indication of how far the pendulum has swung since I can be completely oblivious fairly often. My age shows here as this was a subject never discussed in my youth. So that is also an indication of how quickly this is changing as opposed to other cultural changes in the past.

[curious]

"But I'd still like to see them exposed and ridiculed for their stupidity and to lose business as a result."

Hello Caz,

I can certainly sympathize with this point of view but seeing the baker interviewed he did seem like a nice person and did attempt to offer other accommodations. The florist lady seemed nice as well. It is too bad that it has come down to this. Such is modern life.

c.d.

There are many nice people with very different views. Most of the views are cultural, which usually changes fairly slowly, but at this moment is changing rapidly.

Unfortunately, we are at a very low place in relationship to respect of differing views. I think people have to be allowed to follow their conscience and still make a living. And people have to be free to live their lives. I hope someone will be smart enough to find a middle ground -- which will, of course, mean that both sides are mad.

[c.d.]

Same sex marriage was never illegal in any state. There were just states where it was not recognized as a legally binding contract. Even if you went through with a same sex marriage ceremony it was not recognized as being valid by that particular state.

c.d.