Charles Manson dead at age 83

[Pcdunn]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/us/cha...ead/index.html

One death we won't be mourning, but he and his followers certainly changed the tone of his era, especially in California.

[barnflatwyngarde]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/us/cha...ead/index.html

One death we won't be mourning, but he and his followers certainly changed the tone of his era, especially in California.

I couldn't agree more.

First there was Manson, then Altamont, and the 60's just died on the vine.

Strange times indeed.

[Robert]

The 60s were just a fashion movement so of course they had to end. After January 1st 1970 the 60s were old hat.

[GUT]

Such a pity
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It didn’t happen 83 years ago.

[Harry D]

The good die young.

[Pcdunn]

I just don't understand why Charlie wasn't locked in an asylum -- he seemed crazy enough for it! (I was in junior high when the murders happened, and only have a rudimentary knowledge of the case.)

[GUT]

I just don't understand why Charlie wasn't locked in an asylum -- he seemed crazy enough for it! (I was in junior high when the murders happened, and only have a rudimentary knowledge of the case.)

Mainly because there’s a big difference (at law) between bat **** crazy and legally insane.

[Pcdunn]

Mainly because there’s a big difference (at law) between bat **** crazy and legally insane.

That's what my housemate told me. He can say he's "the Devil incarnate," and be crazy, but because he knows that planning how to kill several wealthy Californians in the name of a"race war" is wrong, he's still sane enough to be tried criminally.
Thanks, GUT.

[GUT]

That's what my housemate told me. He can say he's "the Devil incarnate," and be crazy, but because he knows that planning how to kill several wealthy Californians in the name of a"race war" is wrong, he's still sane enough to be tried criminally.
Thanks, GUT.

I acted for a woman once who I am certain would have got off as insane, had she not tried to hide one aspect of the murder she committed, which of itself was enough to show that she knew what she had done was wrong.

[Mayerling]

All I can say is he can now spend his hot times with Ian and Myra, both of whom predeceased him. Hope they like heat!

[Robert]

I acted for a woman once who I am certain would have got off as insane, had she not tried to hide one aspect of the murder she committed, which of itself was enough to show that she knew what she had done was wrong.

Could you explain, GUT? I mean, I'm glad Manson is dead, but suppose a lunatic believes that everyone running society is a disguised alien from the planet Zargon, intent on destroying the earth. Said lunatic then murders a politician but takes steps not to be caught. Well he would, wouldn't he - he doesn't want to be caught by the Zargons. Still a lunatic, though.

[Abby Normal]

I acted for a woman once who I am certain would have got off as insane, had she not tried to hide one aspect of the murder she committed, which of itself was enough to show that she knew what she had done was wrong.

Could you explain, GUT? I mean, I'm glad Manson is dead, but suppose a lunatic believes that everyone running society is a disguised alien from the planet Zargon, intent on destroying the earth. Said lunatic then murders a politician but takes steps not to be caught. Well he would, wouldn't he - he doesn't want to be caught by the Zargons. Still a lunatic, though.

Not if the politician is Hillary Clinton, because then he’d be right

[GUT]

I acted for a woman once who I am certain would have got off as insane, had she not tried to hide one aspect of the murder she committed, which of itself was enough to show that she knew what she had done was wrong.

Could you explain, GUT? I mean, I'm glad Manson is dead, but suppose a lunatic believes that everyone running society is a disguised alien from the planet Zargon, intent on destroying the earth. Said lunatic then murders a politician but takes steps not to be caught. Well he would, wouldn't he - he doesn't want to be caught by the Zargons. Still a lunatic, though.

In the case I mentioned she killed him (if I described the murder you may be physically ill, the scene photos still give me nightmares, the crime scene photographer retired with a nervous breakdown) if she had just sat and waited, or done nothing, I have no doubts, insane would be the result. Instead whe hid the knife, covered her face when she took money out of his account at the ATM, all showing that she knew that what she did was wrong.

In your example, the killer tried to hide it from the Zargons, not from the humans, he may well still be found insane, again there is a difference between being a lunatic (a medical diagnosis.??) and insane (a legal one).

Actually the McNaughton rules come from a scenario not unlike you describe;

In 1843, a man named Daniel McNaughton attempted an assassination on the Prime Minister, and accidentally shot the secretary of the Prime Minister. McNaughton suffered from what might be considered today as paranoia and delusions of prosecution. He believed the government was out to get him.

A few basic parts to the McNaughton Rule:

There is a presumption, that the defendant is sane, and that they are responsible for their criminal acts.
At the time of the crime, the defendant must have been suffering from a “disease of the mind.”
If the defendant knows the nature of the crime, do they know what they did was wrong.

After a lengthy trial, McNaughton was acquitted of his actions because he was deemed “insane.” Thus, he was not held accountable for his actions. This ruling outraged the public, and provoked a redefinition of what “insanity” was. Therefore, Lords met, and established the main idea that posed as the question, “did the defendant know what he was doing, or, if so, that it was wrong?”

[Robert]

Thanks GUT.

[GUT]

Thanks GUT.

Now of course you then have to wonder which is worse a prison sentence, either for a fixed term or life, or to be held in an asylum at Her Majesties pleasure. (no doubt Liz is constantly thinking about those poor beggars who await her pleasure). More so in days gone by when asylums were not exactly medical establishments,

Of course we’re the death penalty in play......