Manchester

[DirectorDave]

I understand the reluctance to discuss this, it's horrific but for a site that is talking about 5 murders from 130 years ago I feel at least for posterity we should record it.

22 People are dead, murdered by a religious fanatic and 59 people are injured.

I don't wish to discuss the perpetrator, I just wish to record the victims of this dreadful event.




Georgina Callender, an 18 year old sixth-form student studying health and social care.






Schoolgirl Saffie Rose Roussos, aged 8.







John Atkinson, 26.







Olivia Campbell, 15.





RIP, all thoughts with them and their loved ones.

Will update as appropriate.

[Harry D]

RIP to the victims.

Unfortunately, these attacks are becoming more and more commonplace across Europe, and I can only see it escalating from here. These jihadists hate us, the world is their battlefield and the more "infidels" they take with them the better it is in the eyes of Allah. If these extremists elements are ever going to be eradicated, Islam itself needs to take a long hard look at itself and reform, but it won't, because Islam is the final word on God. Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue to post meaningless platitudes on social media and bury our heads in the sand for fear of political incorrectness.

[DirectorDave]

Kelly Brewster, 32.

RIP.



Alison Rowe, RIP.




Lisa Lees, RIP.

[Mayerling]

My heart goes out to them. And the wounded.

As for Isis or Isif...many dark thoughts cross my mind regarding them. Some quite and ironic.

[Patrick S]

Well. I'll say this. If I hear one more person remind me that Islam is the religion of peace I think I'm going to fly apart. And by fly apart I mean tear someone apart. We've not reached at point in the west where if you criticize anyone for anything, even the murder of children, it racist. And being a racist is WORSE than being a murder. So we all petrified of being called a racist.

Atrocities like Manchester don't make me sad or reflective. They enrage me. Never has Lenin's term "useful idiots" been more appropriate. American liberals have become Islam's useful idiots, even as it seems that Islam, ISIS, Hezbollah, et al, have no use for them. They don't put effort in using them. Liberals just line up to do the work as Muslims tell them that they too should be killed. I guess they think they don't mean it. Although, every day brings another mass killing, another beheading, another woman killed in Saudi or Iran for some absurd "offense" to her husband or to Islam, another statement from this Imam or that, encouraging the killing of "infidels", Arab heads of state telling us they have no homosexuals and that - if they DID exist in that country - the punishment is death. No education for woman, they can't drive......how wonderfully progressive! Let me pat myself on the back for saying how wonderful and great and super Islam is!

Pew research polls show that 84% of Palestinians think stoning to death is appropriate punishment for adultery. And Ben Affleck tells that saying bad things about Muslims is "gross and racist".

86% of Egyptian Muslims think that DEATH is appropriate penalty for leaving Islam. And Obama and the members of his cult of personality tell us still that Muslims love peace, harbor no ill-will against anyone, and that they invented the wheel, medicine, butter, and the romantic comedy.

More close to home, 20% of Muslims in the UK sympathize with suicide bombers like our pal in Manchester. Poor fella. Well. At least he's got his virgins now, eh! That's not all bad!

25% of British Muslims think that bombings against the west are justified. Hey! Remember the Crusades? How dare we hold Muslims accountable when Christians behaved SO badly 800, 1000 years ago! RACIST SCUM on your high horses!

But, hey. You're average Muslim loves peace as much as anyone! I think George Bush, of all people, gave us that chestnut. Here's a nice one: "A team of Israeli and Palestinian pollsters says a third of Palestinians surveyed said they supported an attack last month that saw five members of the Fogel family stabbed to death in their home in the West Bank settlement of Itamar. A young couple and three of their children, ages 11, four and three months, were killed in the March 11 attack." The poll found 63 percent opposed the attack and 32 percent backed it." 32%! Hey! But MOST love peace and draw the line at killing kids. A paltry 32% think killing those kids was A-Okay! Man. Ben and Barack were right on the money! Anyone who thinks Muslims aren't everything we should all aspire to be are racist loons. And while we're at it! Get Piers Morgan off of TV! How dare he blame Islam for suicide attacks that kill kids at concerts. That's so offensive.

Forgive me if things went stream of consciousness there. I think I blacked out writing some of it.

[Abby Normal]

Thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families and God Bless England.

[Sam Flynn]

Thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families and God Bless England.

Absolutely, and bless the non-English who suffered (and died) in this tragedy.

[John G]

Well. I'll say this. If I hear one more person remind me that Islam is the religion of peace I think I'm going to fly apart. And by fly apart I mean tear someone apart. We've not reached at point in the west where if you criticize anyone for anything, even the murder of children, it racist. And being a racist is WORSE than being a murder. So we all petrified of being called a racist.

Atrocities like Manchester don't make me sad or reflective. They enrage me. Never has Lenin's term "useful idiots" been more appropriate. American liberals have become Islam's useful idiots, even as it seems that Islam, ISIS, Hezbollah, et al, have no use for them. They don't put effort in using them. Liberals just line up to do the work as Muslims tell them that they too should be killed. I guess they think they don't mean it. Although, every day brings another mass killing, another beheading, another woman killed in Saudi or Iran for some absurd "offense" to her husband or to Islam, another statement from this Imam or that, encouraging the killing of "infidels", Arab heads of state telling us they have no homosexuals and that - if they DID exist in that country - the punishment is death. No education for woman, they can't drive......how wonderfully progressive! Let me pat myself on the back for saying how wonderful and great and super Islam is!

Pew research polls show that 84% of Palestinians think stoning to death is appropriate punishment for adultery. And Ben Affleck tells that saying bad things about Muslims is "gross and racist".

86% of Egyptian Muslims think that DEATH is appropriate penalty for leaving Islam. And Obama and the members of his cult of personality tell us still that Muslims love peace, harbor no ill-will against anyone, and that they invented the wheel, medicine, butter, and the romantic comedy.

More close to home, 20% of Muslims in the UK sympathize with suicide bombers like our pal in Manchester. Poor fella. Well. At least he's got his virgins now, eh! That's not all bad!

25% of British Muslims think that bombings against the west are justified. Hey! Remember the Crusades? How dare we hold Muslims accountable when Christians behaved SO badly 800, 1000 years ago! RACIST SCUM on your high horses!

But, hey. You're average Muslim loves peace as much as anyone! I think George Bush, of all people, gave us that chestnut. Here's a nice one: "A team of Israeli and Palestinian pollsters says a third of Palestinians surveyed said they supported an attack last month that saw five members of the Fogel family stabbed to death in their home in the West Bank settlement of Itamar. A young couple and three of their children, ages 11, four and three months, were killed in the March 11 attack." The poll found 63 percent opposed the attack and 32 percent backed it." 32%! Hey! But MOST love peace and draw the line at killing kids. A paltry 32% think killing those kids was A-Okay! Man. Ben and Barack were right on the money! Anyone who thinks Muslims aren't everything we should all aspire to be are racist loons. And while we're at it! Get Piers Morgan off of TV! How dare he blame Islam for suicide attacks that kill kids at concerts. That's so offensive.

Forgive me if things went stream of consciousness there. I think I blacked out writing some of it.

I have absolutely no idea where you get these statistics from because you don't cite references. However, in a major survey of British Muslims 86% said they had a strong sense of belonging to Britain-higher than the national average. Whereas in sharp contrast 4% said they had any sympathy with people who took part in suicide bombings. See: http://www.channel4.com/info/press/n...s-really-think

Perhaps we should focus a little more on the real truth, rather than Trumpite alternative truth.

[Ginger]

I have absolutely no idea where you get these statistics from because you don't cite references. However, in a major survey of British Muslims 86% said they had a strong sense of belonging to Britain-higher than the national average. Whereas in sharp contrast 4% said they had any sympathy with people who took part in suicide bombings. See: http://www.channel4.com/info/press/n...s-really-think

Perhaps we should focus a little more on the real truth, rather than Trumpite alternative truth.

It is disgusting, that even at a time like this, the alt-left is willing to use such a tragedy to smear Trump.

[Svensson]

Just asking for a link to what initially appear to be extraordinary survey results.

[Herlock Sholmes]

As a Humanist/Atheist I 'disagree' with the basic premise of all religions but, unfortunately, there is huge problem within Islam which most members of other religious faiths can avoid. For example, if most Christians read the bible and find that Leviticus says that if a woman isn't a virgin on her wedding day she should be stoned on her father's doorstep or that Deuteronomy says that if a woman doesn't scream loudly enough whilst being raped then she should be stoned as a party to her own defilement, they can dismiss it as barbaric, iron-age, primitive male-written garbage. As in the bible there are some equally horrible things in the Q'oran but how can a Muslim, no matter how much of a thoroughly decent, kind, humane person dismiss them. To a Muslim the Q'oran is the absolute, inviolate, inarguable word of God. What does an average Muslim do if his brother decides to leave Islam, for example? His natural instinct is that he loves is brother and doesn't want him dead. But his religion and his god is absolutely unequivocal on the subject. No if's or but's he must die or the brother would be denying the will of god and risking eternal torture. What a horrible position to be in. Rigid belief like this kills. And the deluded animal that killed these innocent people is yet another example of rigid belief in nonsense. There are too many 'misinterpretations' of the faith result in horrors.
Muslims everywhere have to accept that there is an issue and act for a peaceful future.
They need to (again I'm not talking about the actions of all Muslims here of course) : practice their beliefs but not feel that the world will not be a decent place until all are Muslims. Re examine some beliefs and adapt them to the 21st century rather than the 11th. Let Muslims in other countries know that non-Muslim countries don't hate Muslims, although time is running out on that score as more people get more angry and bellicose. Let Muslims in other countries and here know that 'western ways' aren't immoral or in any way satanic. Stop being 'offended' at the drop of a hat and then resorting to violence. Stop trying to change the way people act or think, for example, by asking for blashemy laws. Stop alienating women by getting them to walk around in a sack. Show that you respect the laws/ways of this country by closing down the 85+ Sharia courts in operation in this country.
I've ranted enough but could rant more.
We all want a peaceful world where people of all beliefs or non beliefs live together but this will need some really hard work to achieve. Can it be done? I'm honestly unsure. But if it's possible it's only possible if Muslims everywhere stand up, I mean really stand up and admit the problem. Some do, but fellow Muslims tend to treat them as traitors to the faith!
My condolences to the families and friends of this horrible, yet all-to-familiar tragedy.
HS

[Patrick S]

I have absolutely no idea where you get these statistics from because you don't cite references. However, in a major survey of British Muslims 86% said they had a strong sense of belonging to Britain-higher than the national average. Whereas in sharp contrast 4% said they had any sympathy with people who took part in suicide bombings. See: http://www.channel4.com/info/press/n...s-really-think

Perhaps we should focus a little more on the real truth, rather than Trumpite alternative truth.

They're polls readily available through internet searches. Find them yourself. Just as I'm not here to put you in touch with reality, I'm also not here to do use the googler machine for you. Or, you could just read some of Sam Harris' work. He's certainly no Trumpite. But, if I'm sure you view him as someone focusing on "alternative truth"! "Trumpite alternative truth" is a nice phrase! Although this has nothing to do with Trump and my feelings are more in line with Sam Harris and Bill Maher and even - it seems - Morrisey and Peirs Morgan, than Donald Trump, I'm glad you're focus is on the right things: Trump. Republicans. Fox News. As I said, Lenin had it right. Although, I'd suggest you can loath Trump as any rational person should and see events like this for what they are. But, I know that's too complicated for some people these days. Gotta keep you're priorities in order, after all.

Trumpite alternative truth! Can't tell you how fantastic that is. Brilliant. And far more terrifying and evil sounding than phrases like "Muslim suicide bomber", and "Islamic Terrorists flying planes into buildings", and "Muslims who dive trucks into parades", and Muslims who detonate bombs at marathons", and "Guy who blows himself him up at a teeny bopper concert". I get it. I get it. ALL isolated events that say nothing at all about Muslims or Islam. To infer anything like that is "racist and gross". Even though Muslims aren't a race, it's fun to use that term. Racist! Hurts to so good, right? Not as catchy as Trumpite alternative truth. But still a zinger. Well done.

[Patrick S]

As a Humanist/Atheist I 'disagree' with the basic premise of all religions but, unfortunately, there is huge problem within Islam which most members of other religious faiths can avoid. For example, if most Christians read the bible and find that Leviticus says that if a woman isn't a virgin on her wedding day she should be stoned on her father's doorstep or that Deuteronomy says that if a woman doesn't scream loudly enough whilst being raped then she should be stoned as a party to her own defilement, they can dismiss it as barbaric, iron-age, primitive male-written garbage. As in the bible there are some equally horrible things in the Q'oran but how can a Muslim, no matter how much of a thoroughly decent, kind, humane person dismiss them. To a Muslim the Q'oran is the absolute, inviolate, inarguable word of God. What does an average Muslim do if his brother decides to leave Islam, for example? His natural instinct is that he loves is brother and doesn't want him dead. But his religion and his god is absolutely unequivocal on the subject. No if's or but's he must die or the brother would be denying the will of god and risking eternal torture. What a horrible position to be in. Rigid belief like this kills. And the deluded animal that killed these innocent people is yet another example of rigid belief in nonsense. There are too many 'misinterpretations' of the faith result in horrors.
Muslims everywhere have to accept that there is an issue and act for a peaceful future.
They need to (again I'm not talking about the actions of all Muslims here of course) : practice their beliefs but not feel that the world will not be a decent place until all are Muslims. Re examine some beliefs and adapt them to the 21st century rather than the 11th. Let Muslims in other countries know that non-Muslim countries don't hate Muslims, although time is running out on that score as more people get more angry and bellicose. Let Muslims in other countries and here know that 'western ways' aren't immoral or in any way satanic. Stop being 'offended' at the drop of a hat and then resorting to violence. Stop trying to change the way people act or think, for example, by asking for blashemy laws. Stop alienating women by getting them to walk around in a sack. Show that you respect the laws/ways of this country by closing down the 85+ Sharia courts in operation in this country.
I've ranted enough but could rant more.
We all want a peaceful world where people of all beliefs or non beliefs live together but this will need some really hard work to achieve. Can it be done? I'm honestly unsure. But if it's possible it's only possible if Muslims everywhere stand up, I mean really stand up and admit the problem. Some do, but fellow Muslims tend to treat them as traitors to the faith!
My condolences to the families and friends of this horrible, yet all-to-familiar tragedy.
HS

I consider myself a Humanist, as well. I'm certainly an atheist. Although, I will and do defend anyone's right to believe what they believe so long as it doesn't involve infringing upon the freedom and happiness of their fellow man....I think blowing people up may fall into that category.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hello Patrick
This is a huge problem. People who a) equate Islam with a nationality and therefore spout the cop out that anyone criticising Islam must be a racist and b) try to prevent discussion/debate or criticism of Islam have invented the term 'Islamophobia'. A totally fatuous term created to silence people/debate. This suggests that critics have a kind of illness and smacks of 'thoughtcrime! I can't recall an instance, can you, of anyone criticising Christianity being called Christophobic. If I say that I don't believe in the existence of the elephant headed god Ganesh does that make me Hinduphobic. Would Hindu's call for me to be prosecuted or, even worse, killed? Of course not. People are running scared of either being accused of racism or the ridiculous 'Islamophobia,' or of actual violent reprisals. We shouldn't have to keep saying 'yes, we know that the majority of Muslims are decent, peaceful people,' but we find ourselves constantly doing it. Unfortunately there are a very significant number of Muslims around the world who are not and people are suffering for it. They aren't Buddhists or Sikhs or Christians or Humanists or Pagans or Hindu's. They are Muslims. For a peaceful outcome it has to be Muslims who don't just say 'we deplore terrorism,' but address the beliefs/misinterpretations or whatever that is causing these people to believe that what they do is right. I'm afraid that anyone who says that this is nothing to do with Islam is delusional; and dangerously so.
Regards
HS

[John G]

It is disgusting, that even at a time like this, the alt-left is willing to use such a tragedy to smear Trump.

Firstly, I'm not alt-left, more of a libertarian. Secondly, it appears that hard right fundamentals now no longer believe in free speech-that's assuming they ever did.