Comey fired

[Abby Normal]

Good riddance. Time for that dude to go.

[Svensson]

Obviously getting too close to the truth, ey? Trump won't make it past the summer, I think.

[GUT]

Strange goings on over there.

[Abby Normal]

It's really not that nefarious you guys. Comey specifically has personally made too many mistakes and generally under his leadership the FBI has become too political.

[Svensson]

On the surface, maybe. But I thought that one of the traits of this board is to dig a little deeper. And this shows that Trump is running the country basically like a mobster

[jason_c]

It's really not that nefarious you guys. Comey specifically has personally made too many mistakes and generally under his leadership the FBI has become too political.

You'll find many of the same folk wanting Comey sacked just a few months ago will be the ones most outraged by his sacking now. A lot of cognitive dissonance going on.

[barnflatwyngarde]

"Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, it's hard to get it back in."

Bob Haldeman

[Svensson]

You'll find many of the same folk wanting Comey sacked just a few months ago will be the ones most outraged by his sacking now. A lot of cognitive dissonance going on.

that's because two wrongs don't make a right. Comey had not handled the Clinton investigation very well. Then again, if we are for cutting him some slack, he was in an almost impossible situation 9 days before the election. Damned if he did announce it, damned if he didn't. If this is enough to fire him, then so be it and I think it's probably a difference of opinion here.

However:

Trump made his choice in January when he announced that Comey could stay on. Had he removed him then I don't think this would have caused such a hoo-ha. Besides, the reasons for his firing given now were already known in January.

On March 20th, Trump actually found out that Comey is investigating his team's connections to Russia. The next few days he tries damage limitation by obstructing the House committee by stating that there are no papers that relate to the hiring of Flynn.

Next, the shady business with Devin Nunes and his back and forth to the white house in an attempt to withhold information from the committee. Nunes himself is now the subject of an ethics investigation.

Then earlier this week, the former acting AG confirms that she had warned the white house about Flynn being compromised on at least two separate occasions and the White house did nothing (they actually did something: Firing Yates a few days later for her opinion which has turned out to be correct in that she had significant enough doubts about the legality of the Muslim ban so that this should be clarified in the courts first). We also learned that Obama had personally warned Trump about Flynn being a bad egg but Trump hired him anyways.

In the same hearing, Yates also confirmed that there was also Flynn's "conduct" (not relating to lying to the VP) which was troubling but she was unable to comment on that further in an open session. So Trump's version that Flynn was fired because he had lied to the president (and to the american people by extension) is only part of the story. (Footnote: Trump unhappy with one of his staff lying, ROFL...)

Yesterday, the FBI started to subpoena Flynn associates as part of their investigations. A few hours later, the head of the FBI is fired with immediate effect with no replacement ready.

What is happening here seems pretty obvious to me.

Finally, Trump himself is digging his own grave because he is so monumentally stupid. Latest exhibit: Drawing attention to this: "I greatly appreciate you informing me on three separate occasions that I am not under investigation", and this tenner says that this quote is another one of his blatant lies.

History will no doubt remember him as "Donald Donald Trump"

[jason_c]

that's because two wrongs don't make a right. Comey had not handled the Clinton investigation very well. Then again, if we are for cutting him some slack, he was in an almost impossible situation 9 days before the election. Damned if he did announce it, damned if he didn't. If this is enough to fire him, then so be it and I think it's probably a difference of opinion here.

However:

Trump made his choice in January when he announced that Comey could stay on. Had he removed him then I don't think this would have caused such a hoo-ha. Besides, the reasons for his firing given now were already known in January.

On March 20th, Trump actually found out that Comey is investigating his team's connections to Russia. The next few days he tries damage limitation by obstructing the House committee by stating that there are no papers that relate to the hiring of Flynn.

Next, the shady business with Devin Nunes and his back and forth to the white house in an attempt to withhold information from the committee. Nunes himself is now the subject of an ethics investigation.

Then earlier this week, the former acting AG confirms that she had warned the white house about Flynn being compromised on at least two separate occasions and the White house did nothing (they actually did something: Firing Yates a few days later for her opinion which has turned out to be correct in that she had significant enough doubts about the legality of the Muslim ban so that this should be clarified in the courts first). We also learned that Obama had personally warned Trump about Flynn being a bad egg but Trump hired him anyways.

In the same hearing, Yates also confirmed that there was also Flynn's "conduct" (not relating to lying to the VP) which was troubling but she was unable to comment on that further in an open session. So Trump's version that Flynn was fired because he had lied to the president (and to the american people by extension) is only part of the story. (Footnote: Trump unhappy with one of his staff lying, ROFL...)

Yesterday, the FBI started to subpoena Flynn associates as part of their investigations. A few hours later, the head of the FBI is fired with immediate effect with no replacement ready.

What is happening here seems pretty obvious to me.

Finally, Trump himself is digging his own grave because he is so monumentally stupid. Latest exhibit: Drawing attention to this: "I greatly appreciate you informing me on three separate occasions that I am not under investigation", and this tenner says that this quote is another one of his blatant lies.

History will no doubt remember him as "Donald Donald Trump"

Thank you for your detailed response. I note much of the response is still conjecture. I have yet to see any evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, but I suppose it can be argued a lot evidence is yet to come out. Much of the rest of your post is concerned with criticizing Trump's political judgement. I suggest Trump's political judgement is far superior to yours or mine.

Trump should have fired Comey in January? Fine. However, Trump claims he only sacked Comey on the request of the DOJ(and he has a letter to prove it). Trump is either lying, or he is acting as any President would after such a request. Until proven otherwise im going to assume the latter is true particularly as he has a written DOJ document to back him.

Finally, I see no reason to believe that firing Comey would stop any investigation of Trump/Russia. The FBI is a multi-headed beast. It has not been dictatorial since J Edgar Hoover. Watergate was uncovered by a disgruntled FBI deputy director. I believe that if Trump fired Comey purely to forestall any Russia investigation then it will backfire on Trump. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.

[sdreid]

Good riddance. Time for that dude to go.

Yes, he thought he was dictator of the United States. There's something mentally wrong with him.

[Lord Allen]

Saw this today:

You know, it's been six months since the election, and I'm just having a hard time seeing a Trump-Russia connection...
Except for the Flynn thing. (http://www.newyorker.com/…/02/27/mic...-general-chaos)
And the Manafort thing.
(https://apnews.com/…/manaforts-plan-...nefit-putin-g…)
(https://www.nytimes.com/…/russia-int...communication…)
And the Tillerson thing.
(https://www.nytimes.com/…/russia-rex...-donald-trump…)
And the Sessions thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/772...-11e6-99b4-9e…)
And the Kushner thing.
(https://www.nytimes.com/…/…/senate-j...er-russia.html)
And the Carter Page thing.
(https://www.yahoo.com/…/u-s-intel-of...obe-ties-betw…)
And the Roger Stone thing.
(https://www.nytimes.com/…/roger-ston...rump-russia.h…)
And the Wilbur Ross thing.
(http://www.motherjones.com/…/trump-c...ck-wilbur-ros…)
And the Felix Sater thing.
(https://www.ft.com/con…/549ddfaa-5fa...c-7b39cbb1138a)
And the Boris Ephsteyn thing.
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…/dona...dvisers-russi…)
And the Rosneft thing.
(http://foreignpolicy.com/…/donald-tr...a-scandal-is…/)
And the Gazprom thing.
(http://www.thedailybeast.com/…/the-k...il-company-ha…)
And the Sergey Gorkov thing.
(http://www.cnn.com/…/kushner-meeting...anker-tied-t…/)
And the Azerbaijan thing.
(http://www.newyorker.com/…/2…/03/13/...mps-worst-deal)
And the “I love Putin” thing.
(http://www.cnn.com/…/…/politics/trum...ssia-timeline/)
And the Donald Trump Jr. thing.
(http://www.eturbonews.com/…/executiv...ald-trump-jr-…)
And the Eric Trump thing.
(http://www.nydailynews.com/…/eric-tr...ns-fund-famil…)
And the Sergey Kislyak thing.
(http://www.nbcnews.com/…/meet-sergey...hadowy-appara…)
And the Russian Affiliated Interests thing.
(http://www.dailykos.com/…/-Evidence-...-Connections-…)
And the Russian Business Interests thing.
(http://www.dailykos.com/…/-Part-II-o...ion-of-Trump-…)
And the other private Russian interests.
(https://www.the-american-interest.co...rious-world-…/)
And the Emoluments Clause thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/1d4...-11e7-a1b3-fa…)
And the Alex Shnaider thing.
(https://www.theimproper.com/…/donald...sian-connect…/)
And the hack of the DNC thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/cf0...-11e6-8ff7-7b…)
And the Guccifer 2.0 thing.
(https://motherboard.vice.com/…/gucci...likely-a-russ…)
And the Mike Pence thing.
(http://www.mediaite.com/…/maddow-it-...ble-that-mik…/)
And the numerous suspicious dead Russian's thing.
(https://www.usatoday.com/…/dozens-ru...hs…/100480734/)
And the public request to Russia to hack Hillary’s email thing.
(http://www.politico.com/…/trump-puti...ionship-226282)
And the Trump selling a house for $100 million at the bottom of the housing bust to the Russian fertilizer king thing.
(http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html…)
And the Russian fertilizer king’s plane showing up in Concord, NC and Las Vegas during Trump campaign thing.
(http://www.mcclatchydc.com/…/white-h...136939868.html)
And the Russian fertilizer king's yacht anchored next to Robert Mercer's thing.
(http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/…/ya…...qvEYrQ0hm9zlN/)
And the McConnell, Ryan, Nunes, Burr covering up Trump's Russian collusion in September 2016 thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/31d...-11e6-94ac-3d…)
And the Nunes personal investments in the Russian winery thing.
(http://www.cnn.com/…/devin-nunes-whi...on…/index.html)
(http://www.dailykos.com/…/-BOMBSHELL...es-Entire-Net…)
And the Cyprus bank thing.
(http://www.mcclatchydc.com/…/politic...133217874.html)
And the Trump not releasing his tax returns thing.
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…/trum...ax-returns_us…)
And the GOP rejection of a bill to require Trump to show his taxes thing.
(https://www.gpo.gov/…/pkg/CRPT-115hr...-115hrpt73.pdf)
And the election hacking thing.
(https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf)
And the GOP platform change to the Ukraine thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/98a...-11e6-a7d8-13…)
And the Steele Dossier thing.
(https://assets.documentcloud.org/…/T...ligence-Alleg…)
And the "Leninist" Bannon thing.
(http://www.newsweek.com/steve-bannon...ump-jared-kus…)
And the Sally Yates can’t testify thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/82b...-11e7-9e4f-09…)
And the IC investigative reports thing.
(http://www.latimes.com/…/la-pol-upda...hing-presiden…)
And the Trump calling the Russian connection “fake news” thing.
(http://www.latimes.com/…/la-pol-upda...hing-presiden…)
And the Spicer’s Russian Dressing “nothing’s wrong” thing.
(http://twitchy.com/…/nothing-better-...fact-checks-…/)
And the Chaffetz not willing to start an investigation thing.
(http://thehill.com/…/319410-gop-chai...ight-wont-inv…)
And the Chaffetz suddenly deciding to go back to private life in the middle of an investigation thing.
(https://www.theatlantic.com/…/jason-...eelec…/523575/)
And the Lead DOJ Investigator Mary McCord SUDDENLY deciding to resign thing.
(http://www.npr.org/…/leader-of-justi...ent-national-…)
And the White House going into full-on cover-up mode, refusing to turn over the documents related to the hiring and subsequent firing of Flynn thing.
(http://www.politicususa.com/…/refusa...nn-documents-…)
And the Chaffetz and White House blaming the poor vetting of Flynn on Obama thing.
(http://www.rawstory.com/…/not-trumps...se-oversight…/)
And the Poland and British intelligence gave information regarding the hacking back in 2015 to Paul Ryan and he didn't do anything thing.
(http://thehill.com/…/328718-uk-spies...-trump-russia…)
And the M16 agent following the money thing.
(http://www.independent.co.uk/…/richa...e-mi6-trump-r…)
And the Obama personally warning Trump about Flynn's involvement but hiring him anyway thing.
(http://www.cnn.com/…/05/08/polit…/ob...michael-flynn/)
And the Corey Lewendowski thing.
(http://www.politico.com/…/corey-lewa...tgo-deal-2379…)
And the Preet Bharara firing thing.
(https://www.palmerreport.com/…/preet...ave-all…/2538/)
And the Betsy Devos' Brother thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/959...-11e7-ada0-14…)
And the Sebastian Gorka thing.
(https://www.theatlantic.com/…/sebast...white…/519843/)
And the Greg Gianforte from Montana thing.
(http://www.businessinsider.com/monta...greg-gianfort…)
And the Pence actually was warned about Flynn before he was hired thing.
(https://democrats-oversight.house.go...gs-requests-d…)
And the Pence and Manafort connection thing.
(https://www.nytimes.com/…/mike-pence...ump-vice-pres…)
And the 10 Allies coming forward with audio where Trump was picked up in incidental wire tapping thing.
(https://www.theguardian.com/…/britis...rst-to-spot-t…)
And the Carter Page defying the Senate's order to hand over his Russian contact list.
(http://www.independent.co.uk/…/donal...rter-page-rus…)
And the trump wants to VETO Sally Yates' testimony thing....
(https://www.bostonglobe.com/…/gJkj3W...xS…/story.html)
Nope, nothing happening between Trump and Russia. Nothing at all. Move along. Nothing to see here.

[jason_c]

Lord Allen, most of those pages are not showing up for me.

Again, most of those links (the way they are described) seem to deal with piffle. It's not a Trump/Russia connection that needs to be shown, but a co-ordination between Russian meddling in the election and Trump's campaign team.

[Svensson]

Thank you for your detailed response. I note much of the response is still conjecture. I have yet to see any evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, but I suppose it can be argued a lot evidence is yet to come out. Much of the rest of your post is concerned with criticizing Trump's political judgement. I suggest Trump's political judgement is far superior to yours or mine.

Trump should have fired Comey in January? Fine. However, Trump claims he only sacked Comey on the request of the DOJ(and he has a letter to prove it). Trump is either lying, or he is acting as any President would after such a request. Until proven otherwise im going to assume the latter is true particularly as he has a written DOJ document to back him.

Finally, I see no reason to believe that firing Comey would stop any investigation of Trump/Russia. The FBI is a multi-headed beast. It has not been dictatorial since J Edgar Hoover. Watergate was uncovered by a disgruntled FBI deputy director. I believe that if Trump fired Comey purely to forestall any Russia investigation then it will backfire on Trump. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.

Yes, much (almost all of it) of it is conjecture as hard facts are thin on the ground and a lot of connecting the dots is going on. On the other hand, I don't think that this is too much removed from reality except for the fact here that we are dealing with the presidency of the US. If this was an industrial investigation or one into the dealings of a bank/financier, where we have seen such shennanigans many times before, then there would be a higher likelihood that this eventually turns out to be correct. We are in unchartered waters when it comes to high politics. To sum it up, I just think there are too many co-incidents here to be truly co-incidental. We have already seen many many times that the president is ok with lying to advance his cause. He has done so already WRT the Russia investigation as early as Janaury when he immediately tweeted that "the FBI confirmed that the Russian hacking did not influence the outcome of the election" (verbatim) when the dossier clearly stated "we did not come to a conclusion on this" (verbatim) and this was again confirmed by Clapper under oath at the time.

Not only does he lye, he also continues to interfere with the investigation, one that he continually says is a "hoax" and his WH deputy speaker continually says "nothing to see here". If there is nothing to see here, why does he continue to interfere?

Apart from conjecture, I look at how this story is developing and parallels can be seen with other similar scandals in the past. The systematic discreditation of the press who are reporting on it, the attempts to cover-up, the attempts to stop people from testifying, the sacking of people who play important roles in the story, etc.

Yes, no proof in the public domain but that doesn't mean it's not there. I just don;t know what the processes are for an ongoing investigation to go public with their findings.

[Svensson]

Finally, I see no reason to believe that firing Comey would stop any investigation of Trump/Russia. The FBI is a multi-headed beast. It has not been dictatorial since J Edgar Hoover. Watergate was uncovered by a disgruntled FBI deputy director. I believe that if Trump fired Comey purely to forestall any Russia investigation then it will backfire on Trump. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.

Correct. We know that. But Trump, being an utter and total imbecile, will most certainly think that he can rid himself of the issue by just firing Comey (and then install one of his stooges to the vacant post). He is used to running a family business where everyone is his employee and everyone bows to his commands. It doesn't work like that in politics and he doesn't get away with firing the guy who is investigating him.

[Abby Normal]

Lord Allen, most of those pages are not showing up for me.

Again, most of those links (the way they are described) seem to deal with piffle. It's not a Trump/Russia connection that needs to be shown, but a co-ordination between Russian meddling in the election and Trump's campaign team.

Thank you Jason
That's exactly the issue.
Most people are so blinded by partisan politics they easily lose sight of reality.

What ? is the leaders of one super power supposed to have absolutely no communication or dealings with another? Good grief.