Courthouse Suicide Plunge "Shook the Building"

[Ginger]

Honestly, we ought to just change Ohio's state motto to be "The Lurid State". This was this afternoon's big story: http://www.vindy.com/news/2017/apr/1...h-court-house/

[Pcdunn]

I saw the video of the guy climbing over the wall to jump on tonight's news; he definitely wasn't built to be doing an action-movie stunt like that. After reading what he was accused of doing, it's just as well he took the plunge...

[GUT]

I saw the video of the guy climbing over the wall to jump on tonight's news; he definitely wasn't built to be doing an action-movie stunt like that. After reading what he was accused of doing, it's just as well he took the plunge...

In my experience as many (maybe more) wrongly accused commit suicide than those that are guilty

[Patrick S]

In my experience as many (maybe more) wrongly accused commit suicide than those that are guilty

Well I don't know your experiences so I can't debate intelligently on what you have and haven't observed in your life. However, in the reality that exists OUTSIDE of your experience (likely) wrongfully accused people do not kill themselves anywhere near as often as those who (likely) are guilty as hell.

Before we call the Innocence Project to clear poor Mr. Seaman (or rather the puddle of goo that used to be Mr. Seaman), let's consider that he was accused of raping a young girl, a 10 year old, his girlfriend's daughter. In fact, he'd previously been indicted for raping that same girl, beginning when she was 4 years old. Oh, and then he was accused of offering a witness 10k to say under oath that his victim - the 10 year old he'd raped and eventually would burn alive - was a known liar and that she was lying about this rape business. When that little escapade went down in flames, so did his victim and the grandparents with whom she was living. The day that Seaman's rape trial was set to begin, the girl and her deaf grandparents died in a massive house fire. The fire department had little trouble in determining that the fire had been intentionally set, started in the basement, and had been fed by a large amount of gasoline.

[GUT]

Well I don't know your experiences so I can't debate intelligently on what you have and haven't observed in your life. However, in the reality that exists OUTSIDE of your experience (likely) wrongfully accused people do not kill themselves anywhere near as often as those who (likely) are guilty as hell.

Before we call the Innocence Project to clear poor Mr. Seaman (or rather the puddle of goo that used to be Mr. Seaman), let's consider that he was accused of raping a young girl, a 10 year old, his girlfriend's daughter. In fact, he'd previously been indicted for raping that same girl, beginning when she was 4 years old. Oh, and then he was accused of offering a witness 10k to say under oath that his victim - the 10 year old he'd raped and eventually would burn alive - was a known liar and that she was lying about this rape business. When that little escapade went down in flames, so did his victim and the grandparents with whom she was living. The day that Seaman's rape trial was set to begin, the girl and her deaf grandparents died in a massive house fire. The fire department had little trouble in determining that the fire had been intentionally set, started in the basement, and had been fed by a large amount of gasoline.

My experience is only based on over 20 years as a Barrister and working in counselling before that, I'll tell you one thing, I've dealt with some lowlife pieces of crap that made me sick, I have had a few clients (and people I was prosecuting) kill themselves and in all but one case they were eventually found to not have committed the horrendous crimes they were accused of, the final one has never been cleared but I always had doubts. Now as to the number of clearly guilty to follow suit, not one.

[Ginger]

They got this guy pretty solidly, it seems:

http://wkbn.com/2017/04/11/prosecutors-reveal-evidence-in-seman-triple-murder-case/

Prosecutors said Tuesday that Seman’s ex-wife went to the fire scene on Youngstown’s south side that morning two years ago claiming he had tried to bribe her.

“She talked about him showing up to her house and another place and offered her $10,000,” Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Dawn Cantalamessa said.

Later that morning — after Seman appeared in court for a hearing on his rape charges — deputies found make-up prosecutors claim was purchased on his way to the courthouse. They say it was used to cover burns on his face and head.

“Our arson guys, our state fire Marshal guys, say that this is clear evidence of a flash burn,” Cantalamessa said.

But prosecutors believe the key linking him to the deadly fire came from two gasoline cans recovered at the scene. A plastic glove was stuffed into the mouth of one of them.

“It’s found in that glove in that gas can,” Cantalamessa said. “The DNA — his DNA.”

Two days after the fire — acting on the burns and make-up they discovered — authorities searched Seman’s house in Green Township. They found some clothing in a washing machine with gasoline residue on it.

[GUT]

They may well have had the right guy, this time, but you can't take his suicide as pRoof.

[Harry D]

They may well have had the right guy, this time, but you can't take his suicide as pRoof.

Are you saying they aren't dead to rights?

[Patrick S]

My experience is only based on over 20 years as a Barrister and working in counselling before that, I'll tell you one thing, I've dealt with some lowlife pieces of crap that made me sick, I have had a few clients (and people I was prosecuting) kill themselves and in all but one case they were eventually found to not have committed the horrendous crimes they were accused of, the final one has never been cleared but I always had doubts. Now as to the number of clearly guilty to follow suit, not one.

That's interesting. Especially the fact that evidence was found that provided definitive PROOF that the individual in question did NOT commit the crime. As you know, finding evidence that proves a suspect's INNOCENCE is rare, hard to come by.

[Patrick S]

They may well have had the right guy, this time, but you can't take his suicide as pRoof.

To be fair, that's not what Pcdunn said: "I saw the video of the guy climbing over the wall to jump on tonight's news; he definitely wasn't built to be doing an action-movie stunt like that. After reading what he was accused of doing, it's just as well he took the plunge..."

There's no suggestion by Pcdunn that his suicide was conclusive proof of guilt. You volunteered that in your experience suicide is MORE OFTEN THAN NOT an indication of innocence. I'd be dishonest if I didn't say that I find that statement ridiculous on it's face since, more often than not, once law enforcement has zeroed in on a suspect, indicted, etc.....it's rare that some proof of innocence is produced wrecking the case, before or after said innocent suspect jumps off a bridge.

[Pcdunn]

I suppose I should have been less harsh, but I thought he'd had his trial already.

This article indicates it was following the final status hearing for his trial, and one day before jury selection would begin.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/04/11/ahead-of-his-trial-a-man-accused-of-triple-murder-jumps-to-his-death-from-a-courthouse-balcony/

So-- do we allow him his right to be "presumed innocent until proven guilty?" I should have, I suppose, but the details are pretty horrifying.