One the best Scenes from "The West Wing"

[barnflatwyngarde]

I am rewatching The West Wing, just to convince myself that there is hope.

This is possibly the best scene ever, although the Two Cathedrals scene takes some beating.

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqLIH2UiPXg&list=PL86NxXSR-DSqKCpzUvEgEFvWHTFSGlnUU&index=4

[Patrick S]

I am rewatching The West Wing, just to convince myself that there is hope.

This is possibly the best scene ever, although the Two Cathedrals scene takes some beating.

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqLI...SGlnUU&index=4

I had a tough time tolerating all that liberal pontificating, the extra helpings of smarm supplied by Rob Lowe and Bradley Whitford, those interminable Martin Sheen pontifications, and the snappy, unrealistic, classic Sorkin dialogue to begin with. But, I was able to get through a few seasons just to keep my wife company. Alas, the "why do they hate us and maybe we had it coming" episode which aired less than a month after 9/11 put a firm end to my West Wing watching days. I considered putting my fist through the TV - and it would have been worth it - but decided to go down and work over the heavy bag instead (that a punching bag, FYI, not the gasbag that played Toby who was wonderfully torn in half and eaten in Jurrasic Park 2, by the way). If West Wing is what passes for "hope" these days - even after eight year of hope AND change.......then we are well and truly screwed.

[barnflatwyngarde]

I had a tough time tolerating all that liberal pontificating, the extra helpings of smarm supplied by Rob Lowe and Bradley Whitford, those interminable Martin Sheen pontifications, and the snappy, unrealistic, classic Sorkin dialogue to begin with. But, I was able to get through a few seasons just to keep my wife company. Alas, the "why do they hate us and maybe we had it coming" episode which aired less than a month after 9/11 put a firm end to my West Wing watching days. I considered putting my fist through the TV - and it would have been worth it - but decided to go down and work over the heavy bag instead (that a punching bag, FYI, not the gasbag that played Toby who was wonderfully torn in half and eaten in Jurrasic Park 2, by the way). If West Wing is what passes for "hope" these days - even after eight year of hope AND change.......then we are well and truly screwed.

Wow Mr Grumpy!

I don't suppose you want to borrow my West Wing Boxset?

[Pcdunn]

Wow Mr Grumpy!

I don't suppose you want to borrow my West Wing Boxset?

Never mind him, Barnflat, I know I enjoyed the show immensely. I think it was a true ensemble show, without any one particular character standing out more than another.

[Harry D]

I had a tough time tolerating all that liberal pontificating, the extra helpings of smarm supplied by Rob Lowe and Bradley Whitford, those interminable Martin Sheen pontifications, and the snappy, unrealistic, classic Sorkin dialogue to begin with. But, I was able to get through a few seasons just to keep my wife company. Alas, the "why do they hate us and maybe we had it coming" episode which aired less than a month after 9/11 put a firm end to my West Wing watching days. I considered putting my fist through the TV - and it would have been worth it - but decided to go down and work over the heavy bag instead (that a punching bag, FYI, not the gasbag that played Toby who was wonderfully torn in half and eaten in Jurrasic Park 2, by the way). If West Wing is what passes for "hope" these days - even after eight year of hope AND change.......then we are well and truly screwed.

I'm sensing you're not a fan?

[Steadmund Brand]

I loved the first 3 or 4 seasons of the show....great pick on the scene, my favorite may be in Celestial Navigation where Josh (who always believes he is the smartest in the room....and is usually right) gets ripped apart by the press corps......but there were so many to pick from.....or where the President has to go against his own personal faith and not stay an execution....calls for his priest and asks to be called Mr. President while in the oval office...because when in there he is the office, not Jeb, and he must make decisions based on his duty not his personal faith....powerful stuff....great acting all around....and funnier than most "comedies" too bad it went down hill so fast.

Steadmund Brand

[Patrick S]

Never mind him, Barnflat, I know I enjoyed the show immensely. I think it was a true ensemble show, without any one particular character standing out more than another.

Well. There's good reason no one character stood out: They were all the same character...namely, Aaron Sorkin.

On the page, each Sorkin protagonist is someone we're supposed to love and admire. All are inexhaustibly witty and brilliant, much to the viewer's exhaustion (at least when I'm the viewer).

To be fair, this is true of everything Sorkin has ever written from West Wing to Newsroom to Sunset Strip to A Few Good Men to Social Network to Malice. His characters have an encyclopedic knowledge of every subject, old or new, big or small, trivial or profound. They are ALL effortlessly the smartest person in the room, the most literate, the most profound, the person with whom you'd never wish to match wits because you will lose. Badly......Mainly because Sorkin has "Google" open while he's writing the dialogue and his characters have all the facts and figures, all the data...plus they are hilarious. Light without being trite. Funny..but with gravitas.

I understand many people loved this show. I just don't know why.

[Steadmund Brand]

Well. There's good reason no one character stood out: They were all the same character...namely, Aaron Sorkin.

On the page, each Sorkin protagonist is someone we're supposed to love and admire. All are inexhaustibly witty and brilliant, much to the viewer's exhaustion (at least when I'm the viewer).

To be fair, this is true of everything Sorkin has ever written from West Wing to Newsroom to Sunset Strip to A Few Good Men to Social Network to Malice. His characters have an encyclopedic knowledge of every subject, old or new, big or small, trivial or profound. They are ALL effortlessly the smartest person in the room, the most literate, the most profound, the person with whom you'd never wish to match wits because you will lose. Badly......Mainly because Sorkin has "Google" open while he's writing the dialogue and his characters have all the facts and figures, all the data...plus they are hilarious. Light without being trite. Funny..but with gravitas.

I understand many people loved this show. I just don't know why.

As someone who did love this show, you will be surprised to find I agree with EVERYTHING you said.... I often say the same exact thing about Sorkin...and it is obvious to anyone willing to listen, however, what made The West Wing better than his other work was the talent of the performers....somehow, they were able to almost make the characters their own....something nobody does in Sorkin works....they all (for the most part) were able to deliver their dialog in ways unique to them..instead of robotic (like it's written.....god do you remember the show Sports Night...every body delivered their lines in the same tone, with the same facial expressions and body language....it was unwatchable)...but the West Wing cast I thought was great, especially John Spencer.. who I thought really stole the show

Steadmund Brand

[jason_c]

Well. There's good reason no one character stood out: They were all the same character...namely, Aaron Sorkin.

On the page, each Sorkin protagonist is someone we're supposed to love and admire. All are inexhaustibly witty and brilliant, much to the viewer's exhaustion (at least when I'm the viewer).

To be fair, this is true of everything Sorkin has ever written from West Wing to Newsroom to Sunset Strip to A Few Good Men to Social Network to Malice. His characters have an encyclopedic knowledge of every subject, old or new, big or small, trivial or profound. They are ALL effortlessly the smartest person in the room, the most literate, the most profound, the person with whom you'd never wish to match wits because you will lose. Badly......Mainly because Sorkin has "Google" open while he's writing the dialogue and his characters have all the facts and figures, all the data...plus they are hilarious. Light without being trite. Funny..but with gravitas.

I understand many people loved this show. I just don't know why.

I agree with much of this. The West Wing was also one of the shows that made my feel old and grumpy. I thought everyone talked just a little bit too fast. It was not long after this that I began tutting at nudity on Tv too.

I also agree with your earlier post that the show was a liberals wet dream. More nuance, dark politics and downright liberal political skulduggery would have improved the show imo. Note to liberals, your side is just as underhand and nasty as your political opposition. Your guys go to jail and lie just as much as conservatives. I suspect we'll be waiting a long, long time for a conservative (or a populist nationalist) administration to be portrayed so positively in any tv or cinematic drama.

Next week on The Alternative West Wing; watch as President Dan Tremp heroically drains the Washington swamp and sends some bad hombres back to Mexico. Plus, his fight against men wearing dresses in ladies restrooms continues. Will his administration succeed? Find out next week!

[Patrick S]

I agree with much of this. The West Wing was also one of the shows that made my feel old and grumpy. I thought everyone talked just a little bit too fast. It was not long after this that I began tutting at nudity on Tv too.

I also agree with your earlier post that the show was a liberals wet dream. More nuance, dark politics and downright liberal political skulduggery would have improved the show imo. Note to liberals, your side is just as underhand and nasty as your political opposition. Your guys go to jail and lie just as much as conservatives. I suspect we'll be waiting a long, long time for a conservative (or a populist nationalist) administration to be portrayed so positively in any tv or cinematic drama.

Next week on The Alternative West Wing; watch as President Dan Tremp heroically drains the Washington swamp and sends some bad hombres back to Mexico. Plus, his fight against men wearing dresses in ladies restrooms continues. Will his administration succeed? Find out next week!

Steadman made a good point with respect to the actors redeeming the dialogue. That's true but, there are always scenes and/or bits of dialogue in any Sorkin screenplay/teleplay that can never be redeemed, no matter how talented the actor. Most of these relate to the "fast talking" you referenced. Sorkin loves his stream of consciousness rants, speeches, and tirades, characterized by instant and total recall of every fact and figure that ever existed in the history of mankind (related and unrelated to the topic). The characters show themselves as Sorkin intended them: completely brilliant, on the "right" side of every issue, flawed (but in a goofy, fun, totally off-the-wall and adorable way). They're all immeasurably intelligent, lightning quick wits with just the perfect amount of smarm and condescension to remind the viewer the he/she is not like them: they are better, smarter, funnier, and rightly contemptuous of any ideal not suitably progressive, altruistic, and right.

The Sorkin-effect usually builds gradually but when it takes hold, be it sooner or later, the viewer is done, for good. It's usually one speech or sermon too many. I remember my wife watching the first episode of "The Newsroom" and sat down. We seldom find programs we both enjoy but we usually stick out the first episode of two of something before one or both of us drops out. Anyway, I didn't know it was a Sorkin thing....until like five minutes into the show. Jeff Daniels goes on some rant about how America sucks and - guess what - he has each and every fact and figure on file in his giant Sorkin/Google-fueled brain. In fact, it's so exemplary of everything I'll just cut and paste it here (with my notes in bold):

Just in case you accidentally wander into a voting booth one day (smarm and condescension - you are lazy and you probably don't vote) , there are some things you should know. One of them is: There is absolutely no evidence to support the statement that we’re the greatest country in the world. We’re 7th in literacy (Google Brain), 27th in math (Google Brain), 22nd in science (Google Brain), 49th in life expectancy (Google Brain), 178th in infant mortality (Google Brain), 3rd in median household income (Google Brain), number 4 in labor force (Google Brain) and number 4 in exports (Google Brain). We lead the world in only three categories: number of incarcerated citizens per capita (Google Brain), number of adults who believe angels are real (Google Brain, smarm, derision) and defense spending – where we spend more than the next 26 countries combined, 25 of whom are allies (Google Brain! Google Brain! GOOGLE! BRAIN!). Now, none of this is the fault of a 20-year-old college student (the only people, at this point, who think that this dialogue is remotely realistic), but you (i.e. everyone not pulling the lever for democrats who may object to certain sacred liberal ideals and are therefore objectionable and culpable for making American this $_itty), nonetheless, are without a doubt a member of the worst period generation period ever period (those periods prove that the speaker is REALLY smart with a photographic memory - he SEES words - and they also pound home the point: YOU (anyone who is not standing and cheering this *******'s screed at this point) ARE TERRIBLE and the REASON AMERICAN NOW SUCKS!), so when you ask what makes us the greatest country in the world, I don’t know what the f— you’re talking about!…. (Because you're dumb and I'm not. I have all the facts and you don't. I'm right and you're wrong and I just dropped the F-bomb to prove it! BOOM!)

It sure used to be. We stood up for what was right. We fought for moral reasons. We passed laws, struck down laws – for moral reasons. We waged wars on poverty, not on poor people (HOLD ON! There's a war on poor people? Hold on! This is an outrage! Do you mean to tell me that the US government has declared WAR on the poor...hold on! It's those...ITS THE CONSERVATIVES ISN'T IT! I knew it!....Please continue....) . We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors, we put our money where our mouths were and we never beat our chest (and this guy would NEVER dream of beating his chest....this is called unintentional irony...Sorkin is really good at it...unintentionally) . We built great, big things, made ungodly technological advances, explored the universe, cured diseases and we cultivated the world’s greatest artists and the world’s greatest economy (Wait! That stuff's all over? The United States STOPPED DOING ALL THAT? Hold it! Democrats want to do all that great stuff right? It's the...republicans again isn't it! I KNEW IT!) . We reached for the stars, acted like men (Did the women act like men, too? Isn't this sexist? Ah...forget it....He's on a roll) . We aspired to intelligence, we didn’t belittle it. It didn’t make us feel inferior. We didn’t identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election and we didn’t scare so easy (I'm trying to figure out what ANY of this means......Best I can tell we are dumb and we like being dumb and we are all obsessed with elections as much, say, the guy who wrote this tripe) . We were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed… by great men (Great men like....Dan Rather? Who? You? Jeff Daniels? Hold on...weren't you in Dumb and Dumber?) , men who were revered (by Aaron Sorkin). First step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one (Seems like we have - according to this rant - MANY problems...Which one should we admit to first?) . America is not the greatest country in the world anymore (Well, yeah. DUH! I mean, you nailed it! You had all the facts and figures and the wit and that giant brain! How can we argue?).

[Pcdunn]

I am rewatching The West Wing, just to convince myself that there is hope.

This is possibly the best scene ever, although the Two Cathedrals scene takes some beating.

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqLI...SGlnUU&index=4

I finally had a chance to look at this scene. Very nice,indeed. Thank you very much.

[Pcdunn]

Just wanted to add that while the series did have a great deal of talking,many of the best moments were very quiet ones that grew out of true compassion and humanity-- like the one Barnflat has posted.