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  • War of 1812

    Long story short, just been to Canada for a few weeks and this war is a big thing for them. Hardly heard of in England. I mean, I studied history at university so have a reasonable grasp of international relations and the various wars; but knew nothing of this until about 5 years ago.

    Turns out that a C-Team British Army with bigger fish to fry on the continent and a small band of native Indians smashed the Yanks to bits (only joking Yanks, I know you take these things seriously, it was the B-Team by the way).

    Very interesting actually. Sneaky ****ers those Yanks, only turning up when they had the numbers. But, I really enjoyed visiting Fort York, Indian reservations and the like, because Canadian history is not something we know much about. I didn't even realise that many of the Canadians were originally Americans or that the United States had attempted to invade Canada.

    On the whole a really good country to visit for more reasons than can be mentioned on a message board. I went to the United States a few years back and really enjoyed that country too.

    What I would say, which didn't conform to the stereotype, is that American drivers are much more sane and reasonable than Canadians, and I couldn't believe the amount of fast food shops in Canada - far, far more than what I saw in the United States. Considering the amount of people walking the streets in Canada it looked to me like a Tim Hortons had been allocated to every person old enough to walk - some sort of birthright - how these places stay in business I've no idea.

    Anyway, Canada great place really enjoyed it.

    But, what I really came here to post is that: we, the English, won again. I know, it's old news; but it's a slow night here.

  • #2
    Hello, Fleetwood, glad you had a good trip to Canada.

    Considering the War of 1812 is the one during which your B-Team Army burnt down our original White House-- yes, we do take it seriously.

    Those former Americans who became Candians were never really American at all, as they mostly were Loyalist "Tories" who didn't want to rebel against the King. Whatever...
    Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
    ---------------
    Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
    ---------------

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
      Hello, Fleetwood, glad you had a good trip to Canada.

      Considering the War of 1812 is the one during which your B-Team Army burnt down our original White House-- yes, we do take it seriously.

      Those former Americans who became Candians were never really American at all, as they mostly were Loyalist "Tories" who didn't want to rebel against the King. Whatever...
      Hello PC,

      Well, the Canadians were quick to point out that the Americans, who to all intents and purposes were Englishmen at that time and spoke with English accents, rebelled against more than a mere tax issue. Don't get me wrong, right decision, right outcome, because as we all know the principle of taxation without consent is enshrined in English law going back to a time before Magna Carta. Yet, by all accounts the colonists weren't happy that the British Government was preventing them from expanding Westwards and clearing Indian lands - so hardly a shining example of parity.

      They were all Englishmen. Just as there was a split in England as to how to reform the English system of government: some thought it couldn't be reformed and so left for America and others thought it could be reformed and so stayed; there was also a split among the colonists in that some felt it better to stay and work to reform it.

      Interestingly many Canadians were equally not happy with being denied a representative voice, and not only the French Canadiens.

      And, turns out it was a pretty savage war although limited numbers involved. The native Indians took few prisoners and the Americans burned and looted Fort York after a series of defeats. They needed a victory so a large force bullied a couple of hundred and burnt the place.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
        Hello, Fleetwood, glad you had a good trip to Canada.

        Considering the War of 1812 is the one during which your B-Team Army burnt down our original White House-- yes, we do take it seriously.

        Those former Americans who became Candians were never really American at all, as they mostly were Loyalist "Tories" who didn't want to rebel against the King. Whatever...
        These days though, culturally Americans and Canadians are very similar. At least that's how it appeared to me.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post
          These days though, culturally Americans and Canadians are very similar. At least that's how it appeared to me.
          Don't let Canadians hear you say that.
          G U T

          There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GUT View Post
            Don't let Canadians hear you say that.
            GUT,

            Maybe to the keen eye you'd notice a difference, but as an Englishman over that way they seemed pretty much the same people to me.

            I think part of that is that they play the same sports and that is a big part in how a country develops culturally.

            I'm not sure why the Canadians would have a problem with being associated with Americans, because when we were in the United States we received nothing but a warm welcome. They were great with us.

            If anything I would say the United States is more like England than Canada is.

            There's a perception that England is all toffs and the like, they probably account for about 0.5% of our population. Anyone who has been 'round England knows different. The United States has that feeling of lawlessness in some of their cities that you get in English cities. To me, Canada reminded me of Germany. Not the way the place looked, because to me Canada looks exactly like the United States, but more the feeling of a lack of energy and being uniformly civilised.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post
              Long story short, just been to Canada for a few weeks and this war is a big thing for them. Hardly heard of in England. I mean, I studied history at university so have a reasonable grasp of international relations and the various wars; but knew nothing of this until about 5 years ago.

              Turns out that a C-Team British Army with bigger fish to fry on the continent and a small band of native Indians smashed the Yanks to bits (only joking Yanks, I know you take these things seriously, it was the B-Team by the way).

              Very interesting actually. Sneaky ****ers those Yanks, only turning up when they had the numbers. But, I really enjoyed visiting Fort York, Indian reservations and the like, because Canadian history is not something we know much about. I didn't even realise that many of the Canadians were originally Americans or that the United States had attempted to invade Canada.

              On the whole a really good country to visit for more reasons than can be mentioned on a message board. I went to the United States a few years back and really enjoyed that country too.

              What I would say, which didn't conform to the stereotype, is that American drivers are much more sane and reasonable than Canadians, and I couldn't believe the amount of fast food shops in Canada - far, far more than what I saw in the United States. Considering the amount of people walking the streets in Canada it looked to me like a Tim Hortons had been allocated to every person old enough to walk - some sort of birthright - how these places stay in business I've no idea.

              Anyway, Canada great place really enjoyed it.

              But, what I really came here to post is that: we, the English, won again. I know, it's old news; but it's a slow night here.
              The next time you see Chris George pass through this forum you might want to give him a nudge. Chris knows all there is to know about the War of 1812, he's a Liverpudlian now resident in Baltimore and has written much on the War of 1812.
              You can also reach him on JTRForums, Chris is the Editor of Ripperologist.
              Regards, Jon S.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, Chris George is quite an authority. Also How Brown, who was there at the time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  "we, the English, won again."

                  23 April 1986 Wembley Stadium, London 12 Rous Cup

                  "They got one,
                  We got two,
                  We got the pitch and the goalposts too".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                    The next time you see Chris George pass through this forum you might want to give him a nudge. Chris knows all there is to know about the War of 1812, he's a Liverpudlian now resident in Baltimore and has written much on the War of 1812.
                    You can also reach him on JTRForums, Chris is the Editor of Ripperologist.
                    Thanks Wickerman.

                    I came away feeling I'd learned a decent amount relating to a subject of which I had very little idea, open to bias of course, yet testament to the quality of the museums they have over there.

                    Same with the United States. Feel both countries have first class museums.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
                      "we, the English, won again."

                      23 April 1986 Wembley Stadium, London 12 Rous Cup

                      "They got one,
                      We got two,
                      We got the pitch and the goalposts too".
                      There is probably no other country in the world populated by people who save up all the year for their big day out with the express purpose of making a nuisance of themselves.

                      In the interests of parity, my Grandma and Granddad on my Dad's side are/were Scottish - but I prefer to remember them as more than mere attention seekers!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As an American, I say let bygones be bygones. Buy us all a beer and we'll call it even (and we drink our beer ice cold like real men). And... well, you should probably repaint the White House as well. Seems only fair.

                        c.d.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I hope Trump doesn't get elected. He may try to sell off some of our states to Canada-- by way of decreasing our international debt! Lol...
                          Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                          ---------------
                          Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                          ---------------

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
                            I hope Trump doesn't get elected. He may try to sell off some of our states to Canada-- by way of decreasing our international debt! Lol...
                            I think we'd take it, we might need the extra land given the number of Americans who are planning to seek asylum up here if he does get elected.
                            Regards, Jon S.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post
                              There is probably no other country in the world populated by people who save up all the year for their big day out with the express purpose of making a nuisance of themselves.

                              In the interests of parity, my Grandma and Granddad on my Dad's side are/were Scottish - but I prefer to remember them as more than mere attention seekers!
                              I hope that no one took my posting entirely seriously.

                              The author William McIlvanney once said that the greatest thing about Glasgow was the fact that you didn't know where your next invasion of privacy was coming from.

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