RIP The Greatest of ALL TIME

[GUT]

Maybe the wrong thread, but that Aussie idiot (Lucas Browne) that held the title for 10 seconds has been busted for drugs again.

[Fleetwood Mac]

RIP Champ......that's all I can say now....you shook up the world, and made it a better place.....I will miss you...the world will miss you...but most of all we will celebrate you....you will always and forever be The Greatest....

Steadmund Brand

Steadmund,

From afar he was certainly a great man.

He stuck to his principles and avoided war and converted to a religion which meant, if memory serves me correct, he couldn't get a fight anywhere in the United States except somewhere in Maine?

The greatest boxer? I don't think so. I'd give that to Sugar Ray Robinson, and then I'd put Ray Leonard second, with Ali, Hagler and Mayweather very good third options.

I think Ali modelled himself on Robinson. What a fighter Robinson was, watching him and Jake Lamotta is something else.

As for Ray Leonard, I don't care what anyone says but Leonard beat Hagler. There's a misconception that the aggressor should get the nod in a close fight, and the challenger has to do more against the champion to take the belt in a close fight. But, boxing is about hitting and not getting hit and a welterweight showed an absolute masterclass in boxing against the most vicious middleweight of all time. Leonard was superior in every department. Won by two rounds I'd say.

So, Ali a role model in terms of putting his principles before the outcome, but not the greatest boxer of all time.

[Steadmund Brand]

Steadmund,

From afar he was certainly a great man.

He stuck to his principles and avoided war and converted to a religion which meant, if memory serves me correct, he couldn't get a fight anywhere in the United States except somewhere in Maine?

The greatest boxer? I don't think so. I'd give that to Sugar Ray Robinson, and then I'd put Ray Leonard second, with Ali, Hagler and Mayweather very good third options.

I think Ali modelled himself on Robinson. What a fighter Robinson was, watching him and Jake Lamotta is something else.

As for Ray Leonard, I don't care what anyone says but Leonard beat Hagler. There's a misconception that the aggressor should get the nod in a close fight, and the challenger has to do more against the champion to take the belt in a close fight. But, boxing is about hitting and not getting hit and a welterweight showed an absolute masterclass in boxing against the most vicious middleweight of all time. Leonard was superior in every department. Won by two rounds I'd say.

So, Ali a role model in terms of putting his principles before the outcome, but not the greatest boxer of all time.

Believe it or not, I agree with you about him not being the best boxer of all time....just the most important, my picks would be
1- Harry Greb
2- Sugar Ray Robinson
3- Willie Pep
4- Henry Armstrong
5- Julio Cesar Chavez
6 Ali.....

sorry, Leonard may make my top 10... he was great no doubt (but Hagler won that fight.. sorry!!!) I would put Roberto Duran ahead of Leonard...hard to do, but his prime was so damn good...., rounding out my top ten would probably be
7- Roberto Duran
8- Sugar Ray Leonard
9- Stanley Ketchel (and he died so young....he could have been even better)and...
10- (this one makes everyone laugh, but) Roy Jones Jr. who in his prime may have been the best all around boxer that ever lived, he could do everything and do it well, great power, amazing defense, blinding speed.. his downfall was when he slipped just 1/2 a step it was all over... and he stayed around way too long..
Oh I love talking boxing....as I'm sure everyone knows on here

Steadmund Brand

[Fleetwood Mac]

Believe it or not, I agree with you about him not being the best boxer of all time....just the most important, my picks would be
1- Harry Greb
2- Sugar Ray Robinson
3- Willie Pep
4- Henry Armstrong
5- Julio Cesar Chavez
6 Ali.....

sorry, Leonard may make my top 10... he was great no doubt (but Hagler won that fight.. sorry!!!) I would put Roberto Duran ahead of Leonard...hard to do, but his prime was so damn good...., rounding out my top ten would probably be
7- Roberto Duran
8- Sugar Ray Leonard
9- Stanley Ketchel (and he died so young....he could have been even better)and...
10- (this one makes everyone laugh, but) Roy Jones Jr. who in his prime may have been the best all around boxer that ever lived, he could do everything and do it well, great power, amazing defense, blinding speed.. his downfall was when he slipped just 1/2 a step it was all over... and he stayed around way too long..
Oh I love talking boxing....as I'm sure everyone knows on here

Steadmund Brand

I wouldn't laugh at Roy Jones at all. He's a fighter who divides opinion like no other.

Personally, I couldn't agree with you. He didn't fight enough top fighters for me, even though he destroyed a very good James Tooney. And, ultimately he was limited as a fighter. Quick? Yes. Athletic? Of course. Looking at your list, how in the world you could place Jones above Hagler and Mayweather makes no sense to me. Jones was certainly not 'the best all round boxer that ever lived'. He wasn't a particularly good boxer at all. He got by on his speed and athleticism, and was technically flawed. A good trainer and a good fighter would have worked out a way to beat him.

As for Ray Leonard, yes Hagler was what? 33 or 34? and was on the back of one hell of a war against Mugabi, but Ray Leonard had been out of the game a while and for a rusty welterweight to deal with the quality of Hagler is pretty much unheard of.

And, he did win it Steadmund! The more I watch it the clearer it becomes that Ray Leonard won that fight. Yeah, maybe he stole rounds in the last minute of them, but that's boxing. He was never gonna stand in the middle of the ring with Hagler and brawl it out, and so it was up to Hagler to make it his type of fight. As it were, he couldn't. He didn't have the know-how of Ray Leonard who made it his type of fight. And, because of that night Ray Leonard deserves to be in the top three. Beating that sort of quality a couple of weights naturally bigger, when he had been out of the game for a long stretch, took some doing.

[Abby Normal]

I wouldn't laugh at Roy Jones at all. He's a fighter who divides opinion like no other.

Personally, I couldn't agree with you. He didn't fight enough top fighters for me, even though he destroyed a very good James Tooney. And, ultimately he was limited as a fighter. Quick? Yes. Athletic? Of course. Looking at your list, how in the world you could place Jones above Hagler and Mayweather makes no sense to me. Jones was certainly not 'the best all round boxer that ever lived'. He wasn't a particularly good boxer at all. He got by on his speed and athleticism, and was technically flawed. A good trainer and a good fighter would have worked out a way to beat him.

As for Ray Leonard, yes Hagler was what? 33 or 34? and was on the back of one hell of a war against Mugabi, but Ray Leonard had been out of the game a while and for a rusty welterweight to deal with the quality of Hagler is pretty much unheard of.

And, he did win it Steadmund! The more I watch it the clearer it becomes that Ray Leonard won that fight. Yeah, maybe he stole rounds in the last minute of them, but that's boxing. He was never gonna stand in the middle of the ring with Hagler and brawl it out, and so it was up to Hagler to make it his type of fight. As it were, he couldn't. He didn't have the know-how of Ray Leonard who made it his type of fight. And, because of that night Ray Leonard deserves to be in the top three. Beating that sort of quality a couple of weights naturally bigger, when he had been out of the game for a long stretch, took some doing.

John the beast Mugabi!!!! My favorite boxer of all time and the haggler vs Mugabi fight was the best fight I've ever seen.

My top ten boxers:
Ali
Marciano
Joe louis
Suger ray leonard
Jack Johnson
Willie pep
Sugar ray Robinson
Hagler
Roy jones jr.
Julio Cesar chavez

[GUT]

Was Ali the greatest boxer ever?

Not 109% sure.

But what I do know is that he did more to make the sport popular than pretty much anyone else in the history of the sport, some flocked to see him win, others to see him get beat, others simply to see him.

[John Wheat]

I'd say Ali was easily the greatest heavyweight of all time.

[Harry D]

I'd say Ali was easily the greatest heavyweight of all time.

Undoubtedly. Ali ruled the ring during the golden age of heavyweight boxing. A lot of his opponents could've been "the greatest" in their own right had they been born in a different decade.

[barnflatwyngarde]

It is always difficult when trying to analyse the worth of boxers on a pound for pound scale, but I will say that Ali was the greatest heavyweight I ever saw.

It is often said that he was at his peak in the fight against Cleveland Williams in 1966.

Having watched the fight, I tend to agree.

The fight only lasted 3 rounds, but Ali was imperious.

Check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJUzl0aFHZw

[Fleetwood Mac]

I'd say Ali was easily the greatest heavyweight of all time.

I wouldn't.

In his prime Mike Tyson pound for pound would have killed pretty much anyone of any era.

Problem with Tyson is that he was born in the wrong era, so didn't come up against the best in history. And of course, his demons which meant he was nowhere near tip top shape for most of his fights.

Put it this way, top trainers/pundits/experts whatever you want to call them, reckon Michael Spinks would have been too much for a light heavyweight Roy Jones. Michael Spinks was lucky to get out of the ring alive when Tyson demolished him within a round.

[Harry D]

In his prime Mike Tyson pound for pound would have killed pretty much anyone of any era.

Haha no. If Ali could rope-a-dope a monster like Foreman, he would take down Tyson.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Haha no. If Ali could rope-a-dope a monster like Foreman, he would take down Tyson.

Absolutely no chance.

Not the Tyson of 1986-88.

Animal who put very good fighters away like he was swatting flies.

On his day, the best pound for pound fighter who ever lived.

I would bet a pound to a penny that if you asked any fighter which other fighter they wouldn't wanna get in the ring with in his heyday, the answer would be: Tyson.

I've never seen destruction like that in a boxing ring, and watch any documentary and look into his eyes and he's absolutely ****in' mental. Just a job though in Tyson's eyes, you wouldn't wanna get hit by the crazy ******. It was like watching a lion tearing a zebra apart.

[Harry D]

Pffft... Tyson wasn't even the best of his own generation, let alone all time!

[John Wheat]

Pffft... Tyson wasn't even the best of his own generation, let alone all time!

Agreed Lenox Lewis destroyed Tyson and would have done even at Tyson's peak.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Agreed Lenox Lewis destroyed Tyson and would have done even at Tyson's peak.

Aye, right-o, John.

Lewis could not in a million years have coped with a prime Tyson.

Tyson would have wiped the floor with him. Leiws would have been lucky to get past 6 rounds intact.