Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Valerie Storie's 3 part story as published in 'Today' magazine, June 1962

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • NickB,

    An interesting point about the betting shop, one I had not picked up on before. I agree that Hanratty, a man who enjoyed a punt, could hardly have been expected to miss such a landmark.

    However in these more enlightened times workers actually had some rights, which meant that 24/7 businesses did not exist. I would guess that a betting shop in these days would have closed at 5.30pm along with all the other commercial businesses, so that Hanratty may not have seen the light advertising the premises. But he could scarcely have missed it during daylight hours.

    Comment


    • He would have seen the sign lit up at night if was kept shining, even after the shop had closed, for advertising purposes. I believe this was usually the case.

      Incidentally, I see there is a programme about the A6 murder coming up on the ‘London Live’ TV channel at 9pm on Friday 6th May.
      http://www.londonlive.co.uk/programmes/the-a6-murderer

      Comment


      • Back in the early 1960s it was not so common for shops to keep their lights on after hours. Maybe in London this was done, but in smaller towns like Rhyl lights went off when the business shut up shop. Electricity was considered expensive.
        The fact that the early bookmaking shops, or turf accountants as they sometimes styled themselves, were being merely tolerated and perhaps had restrictions about making themselves visible may have added to this habit.

        I notice that in April 1960 a corpse was found in a house at 35 West Kinmel street, Rhyl, albeit totally unconnected with the A6 murder. The landlady, who only lived round the corner from the guest house at 19 Kinmel Street, supposed billet of James Hanratty, had hidden a dead tenant in the property since 1940.
        Whether the elderly lady had died of natural causes on the premises or the landlady had helped the aged lady on her way, was never determined. The landlady had for 20 years collected the old lady's pension. The victim was found with a ligature round the neck which seems pretty damning, but in the event the landlady only served an 18 month sentence for fraud.

        Comment


        • Setting the record straight.......

          Just for the record, this particular betting shop was opened in mid-July. Betting shops were then in their infancy, the first ever one in the UK having only opened a couple of months earlier. The manager's son, Raymond Corbett, told Paul Foot that he took over from his father in the shop on August 4th and that the sign was not erected until several weeks later. He could not determine whether the sign was up on August 22nd/23rd or not.

          This stands in clear contrast to what the very suggestive Swanwick told the Bedford Court. He showed no hesitation in telling the jury that the illuminated jockey and whip sign had been put up by that date.

          In any event why should Hanratty recall, months later, a small betting shop that he never entered ? He hadn't travelled from Liverpool to Rhyl to use a betting shop. Guests were obliged to vacate the guest house shortly after breakfast time until early evening time so he would scarcely have been lingering in the vicinity of Ingledene for hours until early afternoon waiting for a betting shop to open it's doors.
          *************************************
          "A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

          "Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

          Comment


          • In any event why should Hanratty recall, months later, a small betting shop that he never entered ?
            Hanratty couldn't remember anything from his "trip to Rhyl" on and after 22 August, for the simple reason he was never there at that time. However, he did recall events and places from his earlier visit to Rhyl during the second week of July, and tried without success to transpose these events onto his imagined later "visit". He was unable to recall the betting shop sign from when he was in Rhyl in July either because the shop wasn't yet open or he went nowhere near Kinmel Street.

            Graham
            We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

            Comment


            • Hanratty remembered with impressive accuracy the names of the houses he burgled and the roads they were in, so I would have expected him to remember the names of the guesthouse and its road. Failing that there must have been some landmarks that guided him back there on the second night.

              Of course he did mention Dixie’s cafe. Do you know the address of where this was?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NickB View Post
                Hanratty remembered with impressive accuracy the names of the houses he burgled and the roads they were in, so I would have expected him to remember the names of the guesthouse and its road. Failing that there must have been some landmarks that guided him back there on the second night.

                Of course he did mention Dixie’s cafe. Do you know the address of where this was?
                Nick,

                Dixie's Cafe (also known as the Donald Duck Cafe) was run by a Mr Ernie Gordon and as far as I'm able to discover was on a corner of Sandringham Avenue and Wellington Road and opposite another cafe called The Westbourne. According to Foot the cafe wasn't far from the fairground, which I think is/was in the vicinity of Marine Lake. Kinmel Street actually runs off Wellington Road but in the opposite direction to the fairground.

                Graham
                We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                Comment


                • I believe the fairground was just to the north of Marine Lake.

                  Hanratty was repeatedly asked to provide some specific detail of the guesthouse location. Finally he said: “The boarding-house is at the back of Dixie's facing toward a railway.”

                  But if that is where Dixie's was located, Ingledene could not be described as being at the back of it.

                  Comment


                  • By the way, the Daily Mail report on Valerie Storie’s death has a photo of Hanratty showing lots of freckles.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by NickB View Post
                      I believe the fairground was just to the north of Marine Lake.

                      Hanratty was repeatedly asked to provide some specific detail of the guesthouse location. Finally he said: “The boarding-house is at the back of Dixie's facing toward a railway.”

                      But if that is where Dixie's was located, Ingledene could not be described as being at the back of it.
                      Don't forget that Hanratty never mentioned Ingledene or Kinmel Street or Mrs Jones, or anything else that might have supported his claim, by name to his defence. These names were put to him after the place was 'found' by Joe Gillbanks and his pal, traipsing all around Rhyl toting the single photo of Hanratty and bits of disjointed information from Hanratty, and getting nowhere until Mrs Jones of Ingledene 'thought she recognised' the man in the photo. There was then an effort to match Hanratty's 'recollections' of the boarding-house he claimed to have stayed in on 22 August and a subsequent night. The jury did not believe him (neither, I am certain, did Michael Sherrard).

                      Graham
                      We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                      Comment


                      • I thought Gillbanks came across Ingledene on the morning of 6-Feb-62, the day after he had been asked to go to Rhyl.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NickB View Post
                          I thought Gillbanks came across Ingledene on the morning of 6-Feb-62, the day after he had been asked to go to Rhyl.
                          I think Hanratty first dropped his Rhyl 'alibi' onto Sherrard on 29 January. Sherrard was then obliged to draw up a document for Hanratty to sign in which he agreed to full responsibility for his change of alibi, and then to contact Joe Gillbanks to ask him to leave Liverpool and go to Rhyl. I can't recall reading on what date Gillbanks actually arrived in Rhyl, but even if it was during 5 February he must have knocked on the door of a fair few guest-houses prior to arriving at Ingledene. He reported to Sherrard that there were 'several hundred' guest-houses in the vicinity of the station - Hanratty claimed he could hear the trains in his B&B. I also have a feeling that even after interviewing Mrs Jones he carried on his search of Rhyl's B&B's.

                          Graham
                          We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Graham View Post
                            Hanratty couldn't remember anything from his "trip to Rhyl" on and after 22 August, for the simple reason he was never there at that time. However, he did recall events and places from his earlier visit to Rhyl during the second week of July, and tried without success to transpose these events onto his imagined later "visit". He was unable to recall the betting shop sign from when he was in Rhyl in July either because the shop wasn't yet open or he went nowhere near Kinmel Street.

                            Graham

                            Hanratty didn't visit Rhyl during the second week of July. He was cleaning windows in London at that time, just like good old George used to. With a very noticeably freckled/tanned face as the result of 3 months outdoor work with his father. Definitely not a pale-face, like the A6 gunman. He did however visit Rhyl on July 25th, for which there is authenticated proof. Just like there is authenticated proof that he was in Liverpool the next day [July 26th] having spent the previous night at Terry Evans's house.

                            For a supposedly "imagined later visit" I find it quite uncanny that he was able to recall so much accurate information about a boarding house that he never stepped foot inside of.

                            Brenda Harris, Mrs Grace Jones's daughter, stated on camera that Hanratty "was the only man that had breakfast in our own living room, no-one else had breakfast that season in our own living room"
                            If Hanratty wasn't that man then it's rather strange that no man has ever stepped forward claiming to be that Ingledene guest.
                            Last edited by Sherlock Houses; 04-17-2016, 06:11 PM.
                            *************************************
                            "A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

                            "Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by NickB View Post
                              By the way, the Daily Mail report on Valerie Storie’s death has a photo of Hanratty showing lots of freckles.
                              It's refreshing to see that someone else has remarked upon the unmistakably freckled face of James Hanratty.................
                              Attached Files
                              *************************************
                              "A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

                              "Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sherlock Houses View Post
                                Brenda Harris, Mrs Grace Jones's daughter, stated on camera that Hanratty "was the only man that had breakfast in our own living room, no-one else had breakfast that season in our own living room"
                                Brenda Jones said that because all the bedrooms were occupied Hanratty stayed in the green bathroom. Her claim that he only knew about the back yard because he had breakfast in that room is not borne out by his testimony.

                                Hanratty: “In the morning I looked out of the window and found a small courtyard.”
                                Swanwick: “Is that the front or the back?
                                Hanrattty: “That is at the back, sir.”
                                If you believe his repeated assertions that his bedroom was a back room (in the same way that you believe him saying he had breakfast in a back room) then his bedroom was not the green bathroom.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X