The attack on Swedish housewife Mrs Meike Dalal on Thursday, September 7th 1961

[GUT]

So, when VS told Kerr 'we picked up a man/hitchhiker near Slough' was she lying? When she at first described her attacker's eyes as 'brown' - was she lying? When she picked out an innocent man at the first ID parade and said she was certain he was the gunman - was she lying? Which of Nudd's statements was truth and which were lies? Why were any of his statements allowed in court? What of the evidence of Louise Anderson? Truth or lies?

When you boil it down, some people were protecting their families, some were avoiding prosecution, some were dancing this way and that for what ever reason, some were confused and under pressure and it resulted in them 'not telling the whole truth' and if they had done so, including Hanratty concerning his Rhyl alibi, the outcome of this trial may have been very different.

But a jury will be more forgiving of a victim that lies [the poor dear was traumatised] than an accused who does the same [he couldn't be traumatised by what he's going through could he?]

[uncle_adolph]

Hanratty knew full well the consequences of pursuing the false Liverpool alibi in court. He would also have known that substituting it with another false alibi was even worse and would inevitably see him hang.

Perhaps someone could explain why he would do that unless, of course, on this occasion he was telling the truth....

[GUT]

Hanratty knew full well the consequences of pursuing the false Liverpool alibi in court. He would also have known that substituting it with another false alibi was even worse and would inevitably see him hang.

Perhaps someone could explain why he would do that unless, of course, on this occasion he was telling the truth....

Or he was nuts.

A better question is "If he had a valid alibi in the first place why give a false one at all?"

[uncle_adolph]

Or he was nuts.

A better question is "If he had a valid alibi in the first place why give a false one at all?"

Probably because he didn't realise the seriousness of the situation he was in....why should he, if he was innocent of the murder?

You would have thought, if he was going to lie about his whereabouts with his life at stake, that even he could have thought of something better than knocking on a few doors in Rhyl....

[GUT]

Probably because he didn't realise the seriousness of the situation he was in....why should he, if he was innocent of the murder?

You would have thought, if he was going to lie about his whereabouts with his life at stake, that even he could have thought of something better than knocking on a few doors in Rhyl....

But why then lie about Liverpool.

[GUT]

Oh!

And if he didn't realise the seriousness of his situation when he was on trial for his life he was a real nut. Innocent or not.

[Spitfire]

Perhaps someone could explain why he would do that unless, of course, on this occasion he was telling the truth....

Sherrard had been pushing Hanratty to disclose the names of the three friends he stayed with in Liverpool. At one conference in the cells it was mentioned to Hanratty that the judge might order him to be taken to Liverpool to identify the flat he stayed in. This must have spooked Hanratty and persuaded him to change his alibi.

Or he was nuts.

A better question is "If he had a valid alibi in the first place why give a false one at all?"

Precisely.

Probably because he didn't realise the seriousness of the situation he was in....why should he, if he was innocent of the murder?

You would have thought, if he was going to lie about his whereabouts with his life at stake, that even he could have thought of something better than knocking on a few doors in Rhyl....

He had. His first alibi was Liverpool with friends whom he was unwilling to name. He had to find somewhere he knew, somewhere close to Liverpool where he had undoubtedly been on 24 August and somewhere with plenty of guest houses.

Blackpool would have been a better bet, but I am not sure that Hanratty had ever been to Blackpool at the time when an alibi was required.

[Spitfire]

The question which remains unanswered is, how did Hanratty manage to stay in two different rooms, the first of which had a green bath, and when called to give an account of his stay, he managed to omit to mention these 'facts'.

[uncle_adolph]

The question which remains unanswered is, how did Hanratty manage to stay in two different rooms, the first of which had a green bath, and when called to give an account of his stay, he managed to omit to mention these 'facts'.

In my (much) younger days I had a job which entailed my travelling all over the country, staying in probably dozens of similar rooms and sometimes with little opportunity to book in advance.

I'm pretty sure that even so much as a week later I would be unable to trot out "facts" about a room I'd stayed in last week.

I can only be thankful I never had to quote chapter and verse about a particular guest house as my alibi in a murder trial!

[Spitfire]

In my (much) younger days I had a job which entailed my travelling all over the country, staying in probably dozens of similar rooms and sometimes with little opportunity to book in advance.

I'm pretty sure that even so much as a week later I would be unable to trot out "facts" about a room I'd stayed in last week.

I can only be thankful I never had to quote chapter and verse about a particular guest house as my alibi in a murder trial!

Well, the room at Rhyl was unusual to the extent that it had a green bath in it!

Hanratty was able to give a coherent and accurate description of the room he stayed in on the night of 21st August at the Vienna in Maida Vale.

The jury obviously thought he was lying about his Rhyl room.

[OneRound]

Sherrard had been pushing Hanratty to disclose the names of the three friends he stayed with in Liverpool. At one conference in the cells it was mentioned to Hanratty that the judge might order him to be taken to Liverpool to identify the flat he stayed in. This must have spooked Hanratty and persuaded him to change his alibi.

...

If Hanratty had stayed in Liverpool with three friends on the night concerned, it was obviously and massively in his interests to name them. It was only right for Sherrard to emphasise that. However, I do wonder if Sherrard went too far in spooking Hanratty as outlined above by Spitfire.

Would a more experienced and streetwise counsel have done that? I doubt it. Particularly thinking of Graham's post about Birkett and Mancini. Birkett didn't need proof of his client's innocence and almost certainly had his own private views on the matter. He acted in a skilled and professional manner upon what Mancini told him and together the two of them made the best of it.

In any case, would a judge really have ordered Hanratty to be taken to Liverpool to identify the flat he stayed in? I doubt that even more. As the judge emphasised at trial, there was no burden of proof of an alibi resting with Hanratty.

Most seem to agree today that it was changing his alibi during the trial that sealed Hanratty's fate. Ironic if that change was caused by the words of the man entrusted to save him.

Best regards,

OneRound

[uncle_adolph]

If Hanratty had stayed in Liverpool with three friends on the night concerned, it was obviously and massively in his interests to name them. It was only right for Sherrard to emphasise that. However, I do wonder if Sherrard went too far in spooking Hanratty as outlined above by Spitfire.

Would a more experienced and streetwise counsel have done that? I doubt it. Particularly thinking of Graham's post about Birkett and Mancini. Birkett didn't need proof of his client's innocence and almost certainly had his own private views on the matter. He acted in a skilled and professional manner upon what Mancini told him and together the two of them made the best of it.

In any case, would a judge really have ordered Hanratty to be taken to Liverpool to identify the flat he stayed in? I doubt that even more. As the judge emphasised at trial, there was no burden of proof of an alibi resting with Hanratty.

Most seem to agree today that it was changing his alibi during the trial that sealed Hanratty's fate. Ironic if that change was caused by the words of the man entrusted to save him.

Best regards,

OneRound

But perhaps Sherrard was trying to give him the sort of "third degree" which he knew Swanwick would give him. Whilst bearing in mind the judge's comments regarding the burden of proof surely it was inevitable that Swanwick would try and dismantle Hanratty's Liverpool alibi which was clearly flimsy. Unless, of course, Sherrard chose not to call Hanratty at all which would have told its own tale.

[OneRound]

Hi Uncle Adolph,

I don't doubt Sherrard's intentions. I just wonder if he went too far. After all, however ferocious Swanwick might have been, he couldn't have made Hanratty go mid trial to Liverpool to try and identify the flat.

I agree the Liverpool alibi was ''clearly flimsy''. However, imo that was still better than effectively saying to the jury, ''The alibi I've been giving you for that night isn't true and isn't working so I want you to accept this one instead''.

Best regards,

OneRound

[uncle_adolph]

Hi Uncle Adolph,

I don't doubt Sherrard's intentions. I just wonder if he went too far. After all, however ferocious Swanwick might have been, he couldn't have made Hanratty go mid trial to Liverpool to try and identify the flat.

I agree the Liverpool alibi was ''clearly flimsy''. However, imo that was still better than effectively saying to the jury, ''The alibi I've been giving you for that night isn't true and isn't working so I want you to accept this one instead''.

Best regards,

OneRound

Unless, of course, that new alibi just happened to be the truth and they managed to find witnesses to confirm it.

[OneRound]

Unless, of course, that new alibi just happened to be the truth and they managed to find witnesses to confirm it.

Hi again Uncle Adolph - agreed. It remains a matter of debate whether the new alibi was the truth. No witnesses were ever found to satisfactorily confirm it. There were though perhaps sufficient alleged sightings to create reasonable doubt.

Best regards,

OneRound