The attack on Swedish housewife Mrs Meike Dalal on Thursday, September 7th 1961

[moste]

Also from Google earth: we also need to know *the topography* -eg the Cornfield stretched extensively downwards to the river --and also how much above ground level the embankment was -or whether in fact it lies flat with the ground as it does here in much of the North Wales coast where its lies next to the River Dee and later the Irish Sea .I haven't been able to get the google earth key to the topography yet.[the grey road on right of the marked route on the map on the left is Marsh Lane]-the River Thames is on the left of the marked route on the map up until it reaches Dorney Reach cornfield and usually the whole slope of the land towards the River Thames is very markedly downwards formed by glacial slippage in the ice age as it is for example in West London.There is also the Jubilee River on right of Marsh Lane adding to the slide downwards of land from the Old Station Inn /Shell Garage . Clearly this was all downward sloping Marsh Land-hence Marsh Lane.

Hi Natalie. I think I may have solved the riddle of the corn field "Now you see it ,Now you don't". Could it possibly be that your associate Colin and friend were actually sitting in the lounge of the pub, overlooking the farmlands surrounding 'The Pineapple '? a15th century pub It is on Lake End road, actually in Dorney on the south side of the motorway and much much closer to the corn field than The Old Station Inn.

[moste]

The Pineapple Dorney Bucks.

Possible Pub confused by Natalie's friends as Pub frequented by the couple VS and MG. Although mentioned by a past author as an Inn used by same. Also location on double 'S' bend on Huntercombe Lane that Morris Minor was witnessed as being spotted by a motor cyclist on his way home at 9.30 pm. on the night of the claimed abduction.( Note: This spot is only a stones throw from VSs home on Anthony Way Cippenham ,interesting )

[moste]

BINGO. Thanks Sherlock.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Moste---The Pineapple is a possibility but I did check it with him by email and I am wondering if since it was almost 25 years ago whether Colin may have been exploring the surrounding area-just behind where Tallow Lake is because from these open spaces you would be able to see over the land---but not I agree, from a window in the actual Old Station Inn.
One good thing though- I think I have found the exact location of The Old Station Inn see the attached images :
SH posted this a few hours ago :The Old Station Inn was set back from the Bath Road (A4) immediately south-east of its junction with Berry Hill, which runs northwards uphill from this point
Standing immediately South -East of the junction with Berry Hill today is the Sytner Car Sales site a little along Bath Road/A4 with the Office part set back from the road. If you look closely at the tallest tree behind it it appears to be the same tree you can see behind the Old Station Inn!So I think perhaps-the Sytner Car Offices now stand on the site of the Old Station Inn.

[Natalie Severn]

Posting pic of Old Station Inn again for comparison

[Graham]

I think you've made a very good point re: The Pineapple, Moste. On my second visit to Taplow I drove past The Pineapple and thought I might stop for a bite of lunch, but the car-park was packed. Providing there are no large trees in the way I think you could almost certainly see the gate to the cornfield from the pub.

Nice one re: the tree, Nats. Well spotted. The e-mail I received from the Taplow Society was absolutely correct regarding the Sytner showroom.

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Gosh Moste our posts must have crossed!Thanks for posting the great pics but no , I am pretty sure Colin Burden would not have confused pubs actually.The play he wrote about the case was carefully researched . Hanratty's trial barrister Michael Sherrard QC went to see it and was apparently most impressed by the fascinating insights into the character's of both Alphon and Hanratty who ,in the play , carry on an exchange about the A6 murder throughout. Like Louis Blom-Cooper, Michael Sherrard had been appalled by the selectivity of the police and both wondered why they never called Alphon to be questioned at the trial or looked into what had made the gunman hold the couple up in Dorney Reach or why Michael Clark was never called to court [he being the first,---and totally innocent , man Valerie Storie positively identified as the A6 rapist and Gregsten's killer -important so the jury could see whether he in any way resembled James Hanratty--and there are many other inconsistencies and anomalies about the police case and the trial.

[Natalie Severn]

Yes Graham-it was good to see that tree!
Thanks for your research too---it was the Sitner show room that clinched it really!
Norma

[moste]

Gosh Moste our posts must have crossed!Thanks for posting the great pics but no , I am pretty sure Colin Burden would not have confused pubs actually.The play he wrote about the case was carefully researched . Hanratty's trial barrister Michael Sherrard QC went to see it and was apparently most impressed by the fascinating insights into the character's of both Alphon and Hanratty who ,in the play , carry on an exchange about the A6 murder throughout. Like Louis Blom-Cooper, Michael Sherrard had been appalled by the selectivity of the police and both wondered why they never called Alphon to be questioned at the trial or looked into what had made the gunman hold the couple up in Dorney Reach or why Michael Clark was never called to court [he being the first,---and totally innocent , man Valerie Storie positively identified as the A6 rapist and Gregsten's killer -important so the jury could see whether he in any way resembled James Hanratty--and there are many other inconsistencies and anomalies about the police case and the trial.

OK Natalie, point taken on the 'Pineapple" point.
I believe Michael Clark ,not being brought into court, is pivotal beyond words. Sherrard only relying on Acott 'working from memory' about the description of Clark, didn't quite cut it! My thoughts are, Michael Sherrard was completely remiss in not insisting on seeing a photo of Clark, or indeed having him brought to court for the purpose of allowing the jury to compare the two. If Sherrrard was concerned that JH may look a little like Clark , then at that point he could have changed tact, however, even from the description Acott gave of Clark,It should have been enough for defence to require Clarks attendance. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

[Sherlock Houses]

Hi Natalie. I think I may have solved the riddle of the corn field "Now you see it ,Now you don't". Could it possibly be that your associate Colin and friend were actually sitting in the lounge of the pub, overlooking the farmlands surrounding 'The Pineapple '? a15th century pub It is on Lake End road, actually in Dorney on the south side of the motorway and much much closer to the corn field than The Old Station Inn.

It's very interesting that you should mention the Pineapple Pub, Moste. It is as you say much nearer to the Dorney Reach cornfield than the Old Station Inn was.
The day after the murder police were alerted to reports that a man fitting the description of the gunman was seen in the Pineapple on that fateful Tuesday evening of August 22nd.

The Guardian Newspaper of August 25th makes a brief mention of this....

[Sherlock Houses]

OK Natalie, point taken on the 'Pineapple" point.
I believe Michael Clark ,not being brought into court, is pivotal beyond words. Sherrard only relying on Acott 'working from memory' about the description of Clark, didn't quite cut it! My thoughts are, Michael Sherrard was completely remiss in not insisting on seeing a photo of Clark, or indeed having him brought to court for the purpose of allowing the jury to compare the two. If Sherrrard was concerned that JH may look a little like Clark , then at that point he could have changed tact, however, even from the description Acott gave of Clark,It should have been enough for defence to require Clarks attendance. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

Something is indeed rotten in the state of Denmark, Moste. When Acott gave his description of Michael Clark in court, ie. the heavy build, the dark short-cropped hair, 27 years of age and 5'9" height, he was ultra careful to omit the most important and telling detail of all......Michael Clark had dark eyes.

[cobalt]

Great find Sherlock. And this newspaper article was long before the police put out an APB regarding Alphon.

The Dog that did not Bark is a famous Sherlock Holmes story, and it has a relevance here. We are often told that after Alphon was fingered by the police, that several witnesses, no doubt in all sincerity, claimed to have seen a similar man in the area of the cornfield. We are persuaded to believe that they were well intentioned people trying to help solve the case. All well and so good.

But why, after Hanratty was charged with murder, did a similar number of well meaning witnesses not emerge? Where are all the statements from Farmer Hodge about a dodgy looking Cockney geezer wearing a sharp suit and bulging pockets walking across his land? There don't seem to be any. So why did Alphon generate such a level of mistaken witnesses in Dorney Reach, but Hanratty, even after he was executed, generate none?

I would be interested to know why this has happened.

[Limehouse]

Great find Sherlock. And this newspaper article was long before the police put out an APB regarding Alphon.

The Dog that did not Bark is a famous Sherlock Holmes story, and it has a relevance here. We are often told that after Alphon was fingered by the police, that several witnesses, no doubt in all sincerity, claimed to have seen a similar man in the area of the cornfield. We are persuaded to believe that they were well intentioned people trying to help solve the case. All well and so good.

But why, after Hanratty was charged with murder, did a similar number of well meaning witnesses not emerge? Where are all the statements from Farmer Hodge about a dodgy looking Cockney geezer wearing a sharp suit and bulging pockets walking across his land? There don't seem to be any. So why did Alphon generate such a level of mistaken witnesses in Dorney Reach, but Hanratty, even after he was executed, generate none?

I would be interested to know why this has happened.

A very good point cobalt. Could the answer be that a good number of witnesses were encountering Hanratty in north Wales at the time?

[Limehouse]

My first visit to this forum for years ! - amazing how the debate continues. The people involved, all those decades ago, could never have begun to imagine..

The Sidney Tafler lookalike sighting is what first fascinated me, having myself noticed (in a newspaper photo) Alphon's resemblence to the actor before ever reading (years later, in Foot's book) the witness's account. But I have to agree, now, that perhaps Fogerty-Waul was bending the truth a little. 'Getting in on the act' certainly a possibility.

Hi Simon - welcome back.

Do you mean that Fogerty-Waul did not see a stranger at all that afternoon or do you mean he miss-described the stranger he saw to fit Alphon's description?

I hope that nobody would ever attempt to mislead a murder enquiry just to 'get in on the act' but I am afraid to say that has also been said of witnesses in Rhyl. However, no such thing was said of people like Anderson and Nudds. Possibly, they had good reasons for their particular testimonies.

Have a good weekend all.

Julie

[Graham]

I think it likely that the prevalence of sightings of Alphon around Dorney Reach may well have had a lot to do with a certain M. Jean Justice. If Sherrard had thought the claimed sightings were reliable, he would surely have called at least some of the residents of the area as witnesses for the defence at the appeal. These sightings were included in the Commons Debate on the case in August 1963, and were dismissed as unreliable.

Graham


PS: just a small point, Cobalt, but there never was a Sherlock Holmes story called The Dog That Did Not Bark. This in fact comes from the story The Adventure Of Silver Blaze:

Holmes: ....to the curious incident of the dog in the night-time.
Colonel Ross: But the dog did nothing in the night-time.
Holmes: That was the curious incident.

Silver Blaze in my humble opinion is one of the top five short stories in the entire Holmesian canon. But I digress......

Graham