The attack on Swedish housewife Mrs Meike Dalal on Thursday, September 7th 1961

[Semper_Eadem]

I wonder if P. Alphon might of attacked Mrs Dalal. He, the attacker did claim to be the A6 killer. Mr Alphon also claimed to be the Killer. Given Alphon's eccentric behavior I could see him pulling a stunt like that for giggles.

[cobalt]

More likely to me, is that Alphon was putting himself around as the Sam Spade of Slough. Everything we know of the man would lend itself to this interpretation. His desire to be in the demi monde, leading a twilight existence amongst those he considered his inferiors, yet longing to be recognised as a man beyond others. No wonder he was reading Mein Kampf.

The fact that he was a dud Private Eye is neither here nor there. He would have been glib enough to convince the likes of Ewer (possibly through France) he was the man for the job, and have seen enough film noir to think he could handle the situation. Once he was exposed, so were France and Ewer.

Did Alphon and Hantratty know each other? The question is probably beyond answer now. Did Hanratty pass on the weapon? Did he recommend Alphon to France? Too may questions I am afraid.

[Ed James]

By whom?

Hi Nats

I have been away and busy with other things.

In the interests of debate, I have wanted to explore any possible motive for Hanratty. I have previously posited as a devil's advocate that France (although really commissioned by Ewer) could have engaged Hanratty to 'scare' the couple , telling a gullible Hanratty falsely that an unnamed gangster had been crossed by Gregsten . And if Hanratty did a good job, then the gangster would look favourably on Hanratty. I suggested this could explain the bizarre nature of the hijacking.

I wanted to initiate a discussion (but didn't succeed!) - though it strikes me that most posters have firmly held views ; and this suggestion would not get support from either camp! Especially , from those who completely rejected Ewer's involvement , while for those regarding Hanratty as fitted up by Ewer/France would consider Ewer and France were both at risk by pointing the finger at Hanratty.

Or is it too far fetched to imagine that they calculated that Hanratty would not grass on France ,especially as he would have to own up for his part?

Hanratty being contracted by France is not a suggestion I have seen before - and not one I am wedded to particularly. But it might explain the tremendous tension that France ( and indeed his wife) was under , and why he bent over backwards in court to be positive about Hanratty's character (even though he pointed the police to Hanratty in circumstances that have remained unclear).

regards

Steve

[Natalie Severn]

For all I know Hanratty could have been contracted to do a job.

regards

Ed

By whom?

[Ed James]

Your protestations on behalf of Alphon may be having an effect, if not exactly the desired effect. If you look on the "Valerie Storie's 3 part story as published in 'Today' magazine, June 1962" thread on this forum, you will see that the Hanratty supporters are turning their attention to a work colleague (as yet unnamed) of Miss Storie at the Road Research Laboratory as being the murderer of Gregsten and the raper of Miss Storie.

Those that make these allegations seem blissfully unaware of the enormity of the libel which they commit with the suggestion that Miss Storie all along knew the identity of Gregsten's killer.

Hi Spitfire

Personally I don't hold with the 'colleague theory' and consider it a blind alley.
On a careful reading of Limehouse's post , I don't think she explicitly states that Valerie knew the abductor was an angry colleague (after all she only had a brief glimpse of him and the voice could have been put on - Valerie did mix with the amateur dramatics group). But your reminder about libel is timely.

Regarding the more interesting suggestion that Valerie hadother 'relationship(s)' during the 4 year affair with Gregsten, that is not unreasonable for a young woman of any times and not libellous. Nor would it be something that should have been disclosed. However, the debate on the A6 threads about the semen is worthy of fresh consideration.

It will come back on Alphon , but it might be helpful if I make clear that I am not a 'Hanratty supporter', simply someone who doesn't hold with the random ,opportunistic , sex attacker or control freak motive. For all I know Hanratty could have been contracted to do a job.

regards

Ed

[Limehouse]

Your protestations on behalf of Alphon may be having an effect, if not exactly the desired effect. If you look on the "Valerie Storie's 3 part story as published in 'Today' magazine, June 1962" thread on this forum, you will see that the Hanratty supporters are turning their attention to a work colleague (as yet unnamed) of Miss Storie at the Road Research Laboratory as being the murderer of Gregsten and the raper of Miss Storie.

Those that make these allegations seem blissfully unaware of the enormity of the libel which they commit with the suggestion that Miss Storie all along knew the identity of Gregsten's killer.

Nobody has suggested Vs knew her attacker. It has only been suggested that the attack might have been as a result of her friendship with another colleague.

[Spitfire]

I repeat, for the zillionth time, and for the benefit of anyone who cares to listen, that Alphon's involvement in the A6 was purely and simply coincidental. The black person in this particular woodpile being Peter Alphon himself. I am prepared, as always, to listen to anyone who feels that he or she has proof positive that Alphon was the A6 killer. Let's have your proof!

Your protestations on behalf of Alphon may be having an effect, if not exactly the desired effect. If you look on the "Valerie Storie's 3 part story as published in 'Today' magazine, June 1962" thread on this forum, you will see that the Hanratty supporters are turning their attention to a work colleague (as yet unnamed) of Miss Storie at the Road Research Laboratory as being the murderer of Gregsten and the raper of Miss Storie.

Those that make these allegations seem blissfully unaware of the enormity of the libel which they commit with the suggestion that Miss Storie all along knew the identity of Gregsten's killer.

[Graham]

I tbhink we have to look at Alphon in the very cold light of day. His "entree" into the A6 Case came about because of his weird behaviour at The Alexandra Court Hotel, whose manager contacted the police following complaints from other guests. The police interviewed Alphon, and because of the very recent A6 murder checked with him his whereabouts on the murder nights, and then forgot about him. Alphon annoyed other guests at the Alexandra because that's what he was like: basically, a nutter. A former landlady of his testified that he did similar odd things when he was under her roof. It was only when the cartridge cases were found at The Vienna that Alphon once more came a focus of police attention. Now forgive me if I'm being slightly too simplistic for the taste of Hanratty supporters here, but surely that rather smacks of coincidence? Given his strange and generally unpredictable behaviour, Alphon rather than spending that particular night at The Alexandra might well have been kipping under Southend Pier (as he stated he had once done). He also had a history of leaving hotels without paying his bill, and this is almost certainly what he intended to do at The Alexandra, given that he had checked in using a false name and address. Only when the cartridges were found at The Vienna did the police know that Alphon had stayed there at the critical time - had he not made such an arse of himself at The Alexandra the police would never have known.

After Alphon had been eliminated as an A6 suspect, via his non-identification by Valerie, that really should have been that as far as he was concerned. But then along came Jean Justice, who saw a way, via Alphon, of giving British 'justice' a good hammering which, at the time, was his 'thing'. Probably anyone other than Alphon would have scooted.

And, of course, why was it Hanratty's DNA on the underwear and the hankie, and not Alphons's? From whom, as you know, samples were taken.

I repeat, for the zillionth time, and for the benefit of anyone who cares to listen, that Alphon's involvement in the A6 was purely and simply coincidental. The black person in this particular woodpile being Peter Alphon himself. I am prepared, as always, to listen to anyone who feels that he or she has proof positive that Alphon was the A6 killer. Let's have your proof!

Graham

[Ed James]

For someone who ticks so many boxes I find it truly amazing how Alphon is so easily dismissed by some people.

Like many people before me I've never been convinced by anyone that Alphon was not the A6 gunman.

First , thanks to Graham for carefully clarifying his position .It seems that the belief that the crime was not commissioned is a key factor in concluding the cash payments were not hush money. What other short lived activities could explain Alphon's wealth before he lost the knack. And blackmail of Ewer as a source would only work if Ewer had something to hide .

Like Sherlock , I don't feel Alphon should be 'easily dismissed' . If Valerie had identified him there would have been enough circumstantial and carefully selected evidence by Acott to have led to a conviction.

That doesn't mean to say I am convinced that Alphon was the killer but I believe in testing the known evidence and drawing reasonable inferences from it, regardless of any preconceived view of the perpetrator.

Ed

[Sherlock Houses]

I can think of a number of grounds upon which to dismiss Alphon's involvement , but there equally a number of others that suggest he had some inside knowledge.

For someone who ticks so many boxes I find it truly amazing how Alphon is so easily dismissed by some people.

Like many people before me I've never been convinced by anyone that Alphon was not the A6 gunman.

[Graham]

Graham

I took your suggestion regarding Justice and Fox as being playful ,though I have noted your tendency to vilify Justice (if not the man, the part he played). But equally you were ducking the fundamental question as to where did Alphon , once a leading suspect , receive large regular cash payments.


You don't have to be a Hanratty supporter to consider it to be potentially hush money for somebody who knew too much.

atb

Ed

Hi Ed,

I'm not vilifying Justice at all - but as Foot and Woffinden agreed, he was what you might call 'mischievous' in his tendency to attack the legal establishment of his day. I've read one of his books ("Murder vs Murder) many years ago (I had it pinched) and it was a reasonably good read, but he did go off into flights of fancy. He it was who boosted and encouraged Alphon in all his various confessions and counter-confessions - had it not been for Justice I doubt if Alphon would have played the part he did. Like a lot of high living, hard-drinking, well-bred hell-raisers, he paid the price and ended up in relative poverty. But I doubt if he cared a jot.

I don't think I 'duck the fundamental question' about Alphon and the source of some of his money - I've made it pretty plain over the years I've been posting here that I do not believe Alphon's money was as a result of his carrying out the A6 murder. They [I]may[I] have been blackmail payments, and if so then plainly William Ewer must be a possible blackmailee, but I do not believe that Ewer had anything to do with the A6 crime.

Alphon was consistently careful not to reveal the sources of his brief wealth - he only gave some details to Foot after his bank had destroyed the payment records after the required period. Foot was as puzzled as everyone else, and it was Foot who thought initially that Alphon was the A6 killer. But we also have to consider that Alphon had a life other than the high-profile one we know him for, and his money could, ultimately, have absolutely nothing at all to do with the A6. It could have been the proceeds from other criminal activity. We'll never know. As I've said many times in the past, in my opinion (for what it's worth) Alphon's presence in the aftermath of the A6 was down to pure coincidence (and I believe Sherrard thought the same).

Graham

[Ed James]

Of course there isn't, Ed, same as there is no evidence that some of Alphon's lolly came from William Ewer, but that's never stopped Hanratty's supporters from claiming as such.

However, SH has neatly shot down my little suggestion - he's right, Alphon never met Justice until 11th February 1962 at the Ariel Hotel.

Graham

Graham

I took your suggestion regarding Justice and Fox as being playful ,though I have noted your tendency to vilify Justice (if not the man, the part he played). But equally you were ducking the fundamental question as to where did Alphon , once a leading suspect , receive large regular cash payments.


You don't have to be a Hanratty supporter to consider it to be potentially hush money for somebody who knew too much.

atb

Ed

[Graham]

There is no evidence whatsoever that Alphon was blackmailing Fox and Justice. Nor evidence that money continued to flow Alphon's way as could be expected if they were being blackmailed by him..

Of course there isn't, Ed, same as there is no evidence that some of Alphon's lolly came from William Ewer, but that's never stopped Hanratty's supporters from claiming as such.

However, SH has neatly shot down my little suggestion - he's right, Alphon never met Justice until 11th February 1962 at the Ariel Hotel.

Graham

[Sherlock Houses]

There was, of course, another potential blackmail target - a pair of targets, in fact. Any ideas???

If you're implying Justice and Fox, Graham, that suggestion doesn't hold much water as their first ever meeting with Alphon did not occur until February 11th 1962 [if my memory serves me correcty]. That's a full 4 months after Alphon opened his deposit account with Lloyds bank.

[Ed James]

There was, of course, another potential blackmail target - a pair of targets, in fact. Any ideas???

Graham

Graham

There is no evidence whatsoever that Alphon was blackmailing Fox and Justice. Nor evidence that money continued to flow Alphon's way as could be expected if they were being blackmailed by him..

The key points of my post are that the source of funds are not satisfactorily explained and the payments stopped abruptly .Why ? Whether you believe Alphon the perpetrator or not , these are important issues to challenge any individual's thinking.

I know you believe Justice led Alphon and encouraged him to feed back suggestions. But I feel that Alphon, whether involved or not, showed some remarkable interpretations of the bizarre events that seemed to elude other commentators at the time. For example , that the aim was to separate the couple, that the rape (which lasted one minute or so) was to disguise the true purpose of the abduction and that Hanratty was expendable. Plus Hanratty seizing upon France as a target of his malicious phone calls.

It would be interesting to time line the expression of Alphon's 'insights' with the generally available information at the time.

I can think of a number of grounds upon which to dismiss Alphon's involvement , but there equally a number of others that suggest he had some inside knowledge.

atb
Ed