Janet Gregsten

[Spitfire]

Thanks Spitfire, that's good enough for me!
I've updated the information on Family Search (this is editable by anyone by the way, no one person owns a record). Here is the entry for Ronald George Barclay Kinnoch:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pe...tails/G8VW-WR6

Thanks, it seems that IMDB and Wikipedia have RGB Kinnoch dying in 1995 whereas it would appear he died on 22 November 1994 just over two months before Janet Gregsten died.

[gallicrow]

A poster said 'Ancestry' shows that Valerie Wickenden (Janet's half-sister) married William Ewer in late 1948. (Woffinden said they married in 1943.)

Definitely 1948. This is from freebmd:

Two possible brides for William A (Alfred) Ewer - Valerie Wickenden and Valerie Phillips, indicating that she had changed her name. Usually this is because she has been married before, but not this time. Presumably she went from Valerie Wickenden to Valerie Phillips in 1935 when her mother married Edgar H Phillips (unless she was Valerie Kinnoch/Kinnock for a few years!)

Note that "Dec 1948" means the fourth quarter of 1948 rather than the month of December. This suggests that the marriage occurred in October to December 1948, though it might have been late September and registered the following month.

[NickB]

A poster said 'Ancestry' shows that Valerie Wickenden (Janet's half-sister) married William Ewer in late 1948. (Woffinden said they married in 1943.)

[Spitfire]

I have just had a look at Woff's book (page 13) which has Janet as being born on 10 January 1931, and having a half-sister Valerie (about whom we already know) and an elder sister "Toni" and a younger brother "John". He also states that her mother gave birth to a daughter "Cherie" circa 1945.

For Cherie, how about Genevieve Phillips whose birth was registered in the first quarter of 1945 at Marylebone? Her mother's maiden name was given as "Wentworth-Stokes".

[Spitfire]

Quote: It would seem that that Antonia Kinnoch married in 1949 and by then was using the name "Kinnock" rather than "Kinnock".

should that read Kinnoch ? Rather than Kinnock? Or Kinnock rather than Kinnoch ? ( not a nit pick ,just a question)

Rather than Kinnoch (i.e. as per her birth registration).

[gallicrow]

Regarding Janet's younger brother John - there is a possible match to a birth in 1932. It's the only one in that year with surname Kinnoch and mother's maiden name Stokes. His first name isn't John, but one of his middle names is (this can be seen on the GRO index rather than freebmd). His other middle name is very Scottish, one of my favourite authors, D'Arcy Thompson, shared it.

Edit: He seems to have married in 1963 using "John B W" rather than "Brian John W" and, like his sister, his surname has been entered as "Phillips or Kinnoch".

[gallicrow]

Thanks Spitfire, that's good enough for me!
I've updated the information on Family Search (this is editable by anyone by the way, no one person owns a record). Here is the entry for Ronald George Barclay Kinnoch:

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/G8VW-WR6

[moste]

Quote: It would seem that that Antonia Kinnoch married in 1949 and by then was using the name "Kinnock" rather than "Kinnock".

should that read Kinnoch ? Rather than Kinnock? Or Kinnock rather than Kinnoch ? ( not a nit pick ,just a question)

[Spitfire]

It would seem that that Antonia Kinnoch married in 1949 and by then was using the name "Kinnock" rather than "Kinnock".



I have also discovered an electoral roll entry for 1931 which shows that a Mr Ronald George Barclay Kinnoch was living with a Wendy Kinnoch at 36 Beaconsfield Road, N11.




Mr Ronald G B Kinnoch was a relatively well-known film producer and according to Wikipedia was born in Dundee in 1910 and died in the USA in 1995. This would have made him 21 years of age in 1931. He would not have been old enough to be on the 1930 electoral roll when Antonia was born.

If Wendy (Lilian W) Kinnoch/Stokes/ Wickenden/ Phillips had given birth to Antonia in early 1930, she could not also have given birth to Janet at about the same time unless Antonia and Janet were twins. It is possible that the dates on the 1939 Register and the death certificate for Janet Phillips/ Gregsten misstated her birth date by making her a year older than she really was.

[gallicrow]

... an elder sister "Toni" ...

Perhaps Antonia Kinnoch?



It looks like this person died in 2013 (death registered in West Sussex as "Antonia Cutler" in Q3 2013).

[Spitfire]

Edit: Possibly registered with the surname "Greyston" with mother's maiden name "Phillips".

Undoubtedly Greyston should be read as Gregsten for the registration in the 4th quarter of 1959. The young Greyston had same Christian name and same middle two initials as Mr Gregsten used when his marriage in 1996 was registered.

[gallicrow]

I'm also struggling to find the birth record for Michael and Janet Gregsten's second son. I won't post his name here as he is still alive, even though his name is well known.
Using freebmd.org.uk and the GRO index, I found one boy born in 1953 with a mother's maiden name of Kinnock. The second was apparently born in October 1959, so his birth should have been registered in Q4 1959, but I can't find it.

Edit: Possibly registered with the surname "Greyston" with mother's maiden name "Phillips".

[gallicrow]

Do you have an entry of birth registration for Janet Wickenden for 1930?

That's so strange, I can't find it now. I could have sworn I had the two birth registrations sitting in front of me, one for Janet Wickenden in Q1 1930 and one for Janet Kinnock in Q1 1931. I must have been hallucinating.

The birth year of 1930 rather than 1931 is given in both her death record and the 1939 register. Here is her entry in the 1939 register:


Kinnock is a surprisingly rare name, and it seems quite likely that the mysterious Kinnock whose surname Janet was given in 1931 is related to Neil Kinnock. I've been filling in a few details for his family tree to see if any of his ancestors lived near Barnet at around 1930. No luck so far. Here is Neil Kinnock's father on the Family Search site: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pe...tails/G758-CZS

By the way, a strong candidate for the unluckiest name to give your child must be "Wendy Phillips". I searched for deaths of people with this name on www.freebmd.org.uk and the first 15 died under the age of 1. The longest lived of them all only made it to 28.

[NickB]

From elsewhere on the forum (perhaps from Woffinden; I don't have my copy to hand):

'Janet left her Hampstead home at 14 due to the behaviour of her stepfather."

[Spitfire]

I have just had a look at Woff's book (page 13) which has Janet as being born on 10 January 1931, and having a half-sister Valerie (about whom we already know) and an elder sister "Toni" and a younger brother "John". He also states that her mother gave birth to a daughter "Cherie" circa 1945.