A6 Murder who wrote the letter to Gregsten's boss complaining of the relationship?

[Natalie Severn]

Some thoughts about who it might have been :
I am not suggesting Charles France or a brother in law of France or even a frequenter pal of his from the Rehearsal or some such Soho Club type went to visit the landlord.But I do suspect it might well have been William Ewer because he was clearly very very fond of Janet--as apparently was his wife,Janet's half sister since they both immediately took her and her young children to live with them after the murder and had apparently been party to the discussions about the way forward for the 'triangle'.

[EddieX]

On the 6th October after James Hanratty had attempted to explain his predicament both in the morning and late at night to Supt. Acott about being wanted for a burglary etc he decided to go on the run.He last spoke to Acott at 11.05 pm and got nowhere being told to hand himself to the police and never mind the consequences sort of thing.So he stole a Jaguar car from Great Portland Street in Central London and dashed up North in it.
Take note of how he did this because it reveals a clear understanding of cars and how they function-and I wonder seriously how many of us on here would be capable of acting so rapidly in such circumstances:
He took down the number on the dashboard and sped down to Soho where he knew a chap who would make up a key quickly from it.He then returned to the Jaguar and drove it to Manchester where he abandoned it and took the train to Liverpool.
No messing-
How many of us have had a minor scrape in a car like he had in Ireland early in September---it was minimal-little more than a scratch....

I beg to differ.

I have now read Woffinden's book at page 86 (1999 Pan Books paperback edition) he describes how Hanratty " learned" to drive. It seems that when left to his own devices Hanratty got caught when nicking a Humber Hawk. He was convicted and had a second offence taken into consideration. This led to a sentence of 4 months imprisonment given on 3 July 1957. So that's 2 thefts, and caught on one occasion.

Hanratty was back before the beak in March 1958. There were 2 TWOC charges and one TWOC taken into consideration. Woffinden is keen to say that when before the beak Hanratty was willing to admit allo his past demeanours, if that is right then the accomplished car thief had at this stage had stolen five cars and had been caught on either two or three occasions.

I suspect that his high rate of being detected was down to his lamentable driving.

As to the Jaguar he nicked, we only have his word that it was he and only he who stole and drove the car. The Jag was found abandoned in Manchester with several crates of bottles of Chester's Ales in the boot (BW 139). Why Hanratty should buy crates of beer (Chester's was a Salford brewery) and leave them in the boot while he got the train to Liverpool does not make sense. Why not abandon the car in Liverpool without buying any beer? I would not trust Hanratty's account of this episode.

As to the incident in Ireland being little more than a scratch, Woffinden (132) has it that Hanratty had damaged the front wing and both offside doors of the other car by driving too fast and going over the centre white line in the village of Castlemartyr. It is true that the police took no criminal proceedings against Hanratty, but it hardly inspires confidence in his driving.

[Natalie Severn]

Eddie X
-but then to 'suspect' is not to know something for a fact !
If a man can drive a Jaguar car to Manchester that he has never driven before I would assume that man can drive competently!
Besides,he took Louise Anderson to work each day and out into the country as he did with several of the girls he took out and neither she or they ever makes reference to his driving skills as being anything but ok. Only Charles France's daughter, as a prosecution witness, said he drove differently from that---and Michael Sherrard Hanratty's trial barrister, told the court he thought she was saying it to damage Hanratty!.
The film made by John Lennon and Yoko Ono in 1968 ,[which I have a copy of], is interesting in that Paul Foot interviews a couple of very pretty -and also very respectable looking well spoken young girls and who also clearly liked Hanratty . They talk about the 'posh cars' he picked them up in and how they were taken for drives in the country by him---no mention of anything other than that he drove perfectly normally with those particular girls who didn't appear to have a grudge against hi m or be wanting to damage him---he had been dead by then for 6 or 7 years.

[Stevo7395]

Eddie, you use phrases like TWOC and TIC....do you work for the law mate ?...coz I do if you can drive a Jaguar you can drive a Morris minor, Ford Mondeo or scenic megane if you can drive a car you can drive a car...end of !....so if he can't drive a car how does he get from rural Bedfordshire to NE London and then dump it driving badly through lanes and villages if he avoided the main roads.....and nobody saw him turn up in Dorney reach or Maidenhead or Slough railway stations on an August summers day.....come on if he killed MG and raped VS he did not act alone....no one man is capable of doing that on his own and then he puts the murder weapon under a seat on a bus to Peckham ...were Del boy and Trigger gonna get rid for him ?.....this is a plot that got too hot and the nicker fragment that was " found " in the early 90's by a Kempston Hq worker....really !

[EddieX]

Hanratty could drive a car, but drove badly.

If you can drive a Jaguar badly you can drive a Morris Minor badly.

If you can drive a hire car in Ireland badly then you can drive a Sunbeam Alpine badly.

Hanratty drove the Morris Minor from Beds. to east London badly, this is evidenced by the bent front number plate, the bent rear bumper and the Redbridge witnesses who saw the car in motion.

It does not take two people to drive a car badly. One can do it on his own.

It does not take two people to kill a man with a gun. One can do it on his own.

It does not take two people to rape a woman. One can do it on his own.

The knicker fragment was discovered in 1994 as a result of Woffinden's and Bindman's efforts to have Hanratty's case put before the Court of Criminal Appeal, and that their instance was subject to DNA testing which eventually revealed that the one man responsible was James Hanratty.

[Graham]

Hanratty could drive a car, but drove badly.

If you can drive a Jaguar badly you can drive a Morris Minor badly.

If you can drive a hire car in Ireland badly then you can drive a Sunbeam Alpine badly.

Hanratty drove the Morris Minor from Beds. to east London badly, this is evidenced by the bent front number plate, the bent rear bumper and the Redbridge witnesses who saw the car in motion.

It does not take two people to drive a car badly. One can do it on his own.

It does not take two people to kill a man with a gun. One can do it on his own.

It does not take two people to rape a woman. One can do it on his own.

The knicker fragment was discovered in 1994 as a result of Woffinden's and Bindman's efforts to have Hanratty's case put before the Court of Criminal Appeal, and that their instance was subject to DNA testing which eventually revealed that the one man responsible was James Hanratty.

Excellent post, Eddie. Until I retired I was a technical rep and drove anything from 25000 - 50000 miles a year, both in the UK and Europe. I don't consider myself to be a Lewis Hamilton, but I can state absolutely categorically that I can't understand how some drivers I knew and know could have ever passed their test! A former boss of mine was one of them - he seemed to have no concept of the fact that there are other vehicles on the road, or that things like walls and high kerbs, and parked cars (!), are very hard and unyielding. He damaged car after car almost as a matter of routine! Like my old boss, Hanratty was a bad driver, that's the long and the short of it, but that does not mean to say that he was completely incapable of getting from A to B in a car. From what I recall, he was 'taught' to drive by a bloke he called Bill, who lived in Bloxwich. He certainly had no UK licence, hence his trip to Ireland where apparently you could get a one-year driving-licence without having to take a test; presumably this was a 'provisional' licence.

Graham

[Graham]

Eddie, you use phrases like TWOC and TIC....do you work for the law mate ?...coz I do if you can drive a Jaguar you can drive a Morris minor, Ford Mondeo or scenic megane if you can drive a car you can drive a car...end of !....so if he can't drive a car how does he get from rural Bedfordshire to NE London and then dump it driving badly through lanes and villages if he avoided the main roads.....and nobody saw him turn up in Dorney reach or Maidenhead or Slough railway stations on an August summers day.....come on if he killed MG and raped VS he did not act alone....no one man is capable of doing that on his own and then he puts the murder weapon under a seat on a bus to Peckham ...were Del boy and Trigger gonna get rid for him ?.....this is a plot that got too hot and the nicker fragment that was " found " in the early 90's by a Kempston Hq worker....really !

Murders comparable to the A6 are the Zodiac and Son Of Sam killers in the USA. Both were without any concrete motive, as was the A6. 'Zodiac' drove to places looking for courting couples in parked cars, and shot them; David Berkowitz, 'Son Of Sam', approached courting couples in parked cars on foot. In neither case has it been suggested, to my knowledge, that both killers could not have acted alone, or had to have an accomplice. Berkowitz was caught by accident via an unpaid parking-ticket; 'Zodiac' was never caught. Accomplices in any criminal activity mean lowered security - I don't believe that Hanratty, for example, carried out any burglaries except on his own.

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Accomplices in any criminal activity mean lowered security - I don't believe that Hanratty, for example, carried out any burglaries except on his own.

Graham

This is a very interesting angle on this case Graham-though I am not convinced that this was anything other than a 'gas meter' job ---as Acott is reported to have told the Sunday Times investigative journalist,Lewis Chester-a journalist from that time who strongly believed in Hanratty's total innocence and still working in journalism I understand.
Anyway, I have a rather strong rebuttal here of your speculation that Hanratty 'always burgled alone- clearly he did not 'always burgle alone' .

The following is taken from transcripts from Hanratty to police dated 30/12/1961 and written on a sixties typewriter in courier script!-may try to scan it later:

It begins " I did a job one afternoon in the middle of July in Hendon Way........
.........[he describes how owners were on holiday so :
"I went backto the West End-I went to the Club and asked Dixie if he knew anyone with a motor-I could not steal one that time of day-he[France] said "What have you got?" -[then] "he said he knew someone with a motor-We went to a club-man not there-he then went to another club and saw doorman H-[he is oldish and has a record] he has a green Rover.Dixie and H- came with me-Dixie was desperate then ,he had no money and was out of work-we got to the house about 6pm.H- parked car at bottom of road .Dixie walked up to the house with me and stood on the corner of street......and it describes a joint operation involving-in the end -6 people in total.

[Natalie Severn]

Hanratty could drive a car, but drove badly.

If you can drive a Jaguar badly you can drive a Morris Minor badly.

If you can drive a hire car in Ireland badly then you can drive a Sunbeam Alpine badly.

Hanratty drove the Morris Minor from Beds. to east London badly, this is evidenced by the bent front number plate, the bent rear bumper and the Redbridge witnesses who saw the car in motion.

.

Can you quote your source for this statement that he drove the Sunbeam or any other car 'badly'---ie apart from the scrape in Ireland?
I can quote sources where girls who went out with him in the car said his driving was fine-only Carol France is on record saying otherwise and -well she would wouldnt she-like Sherrard said-appeared to want to damage him in court ....

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Eddie, No I'm on the right thread mate, my point is that I am convinced JH did not act alone, this thread is about Gregsten's boss and perhaps people trying to intervene, if you read the last few lines of my post I do not believe he acted as a lone desperado who just happens to find a courting couple in a remote field in south Buckinghamshire who makes them drive to a place between Luton and Bedford on a main road, why would you do that and kill one, rape the other and shoot her and take the trouble to drive to North east London and dump the car you had just blown a man's head off.....but you've never been convicted or committed a violent crime before. If what we are told about JH 's previous is true then he was a car thief even his brother tells us he was an accomplished one. A morris minor was a fairly basic car in it's day and if he was a bad driver as you suggest he may have been why stop and have a conversation with a couple in Clophill village ( who Beds police dismissed ) .....what would I be doing had I just done that...keep going and stop for nobody and once you get to the bottom of Deadman's hill going south it's a straight run.

I believe that VG complained to others about her predicament with hubby's affair and others decided to " sort " it .....just my opinion, cheers, Steve

Excellent post Steve---one can tell instantly you really know what you are talking about viz a viz the police angle

[Natalie Severn]

Eddie, you use phrases like TWOC and TIC....do you work for the law mate ?...coz I do if you can drive a Jaguar you can drive a Morris minor, Ford Mondeo or scenic megane if you can drive a car you can drive a car...end of !....so if he can't drive a car how does he get from rural Bedfordshire to NE London and then dump it driving badly through lanes and villages if he avoided the main roads.....and nobody saw him turn up in Dorney reach or Maidenhead or Slough railway stations on an August summers day.....come on if he killed MG and raped VS he did not act alone....no one man is capable of doing that on his own and then he puts the murder weapon under a seat on a bus to Peckham ...were Del boy and Trigger gonna get rid for him ?.....this is a plot that got too hot and the nicker fragment that was " found " in the early 90's by a Kempston Hq worker....really !

Great Post Stevo---am very impressed by these posts-you really do know what you are on about---great stuff!

[Limehouse]

Hanratty could drive a car, but drove badly.

If you can drive a Jaguar badly you can drive a Morris Minor badly.

If you can drive a hire car in Ireland badly then you can drive a Sunbeam Alpine badly.

Hanratty drove the Morris Minor from Beds. to east London badly, this is evidenced by the bent front number plate, the bent rear bumper and the Redbridge witnesses who saw the car in motion.

It does not take two people to drive a car badly. One can do it on his own.

It does not take two people to kill a man with a gun. One can do it on his own.

It does not take two people to rape a woman. One can do it on his own.

The knicker fragment was discovered in 1994 as a result of Woffinden's and Bindman's efforts to have Hanratty's case put before the Court of Criminal Appeal, and that their instance was subject to DNA testing which eventually revealed that the one man responsible was James Hanratty.

I don't think the issue is whether Hanratty drove badly at all. I think the issue is whether he would have needed someone to show him how the gears worked. An accomplished car thief like Hanratty was used to getting into stolen cars and getting away from the scene swiftly. I very much doubt that he would have needed someone to show him how to change gear. I also doubt that, in changing gear, he would have been so incompetent, that a witness heard the gears ginding and saw the car bunny hopping down the road.

Certainly Hanratty may have been a careless driver, but he could master the basics of gear changing etc. That much is proven.

[propatria27]

(Incidentally, she also specifically said that the gunman had a 'handkerchief' to cover his face, outlaw fashion, rather than a piece of 'cloth'. As JH was habitually a natty dresser, and as he recognised a hankie in court as being his, I think it safe to assume that a hankie it was, and very likely to be the same one used to wrap the gun + ammo found on the 36A bus.

Graham, just seen this post on this thread. Although VS said she thought it was a handkerchief around the gunman's face, I don't think a normal sized hanky will fit around an adult male head - I've tried it with some of mine and it doesn't reach. My opinion is, that if this piece of cloth is connected to the crimes, then it may be the one worn by the gunman and may have had DNA evidence on it i.e. saliva. This is only speculation, but it also leads you to conclude some planning, as the gunman would need to have picked a piece of cloth that fitted around his face.

Pete

[Natalie Severn]

- I've tried it with some of mine and it doesn't reach. My opinion is, that if this piece of cloth is connected to the crimes, then it may be the one worn by the gunman and may have had DNA evidence on it i.e. saliva. This is only speculation, but it also leads you to conclude some planning, as the gunman would need to have picked a piece of cloth that fitted around his face.

Pete

Good points Pete!

[EddieX]

I don't think the issue is whether Hanratty drove badly at all. I think the issue is whether he would have needed someone to show him how the gears worked. An accomplished car thief like Hanratty was used to getting into stolen cars and getting away from the scene swiftly. I very much doubt that he would have needed someone to show him how to change gear. I also doubt that, in changing gear, he would have been so incompetent, that a witness heard the gears ginding and saw the car bunny hopping down the road.

Certainly Hanratty may have been a careless driver, but he could master the basics of gear changing etc. That much is proven.

But that is just the point, Hanratty was not an accomplished car thief, he was as incompetent at thieving cars as he was at burgling houses.

Is there any evidence that he drove at any time between leaving prison in March 1961 and driving the Morris Minor on 23 August 1961? I stand to be corrected, but the answer to that question seems to be 'none'. Indeed all the evidence points to Hanratty travelling by bus, train or taxi.

If that be the case, then it would have been nearly three and a half years since Hanratty drove a car. As Hanratty had never been properly taught to drive, coupled with his 'learning difficulties' and the fact that he had never been inside a humble Morris Minor, then I could well imagine his need of instruction as to the operation of the gears. My impression is that Hanratty would have been aware that the clutch pedal had to be depressed, but would be unsure as to the direction of the gear shift for the various gears.