A6 Murder who wrote the letter to Gregsten's boss complaining of the relationship?

[Natalie Severn]

for EddieX Some Information about Leo McKinstry ..........!!!!!

http://stevehynd.com/2012/09/06/leo-mckinstry-should-be-glad-there-isnt-a-fit-for-work-test-for-journalists-if-there-was-hed-fail/

Leo McKinstry the article claims is well known for not checking his facts and for presenting "Fact as fiction and fiction as fact!

[Natalie Severn]

When the Jag was stolen in October 1961, Hanratty again had an accomplice with whom he separated in Manchester where the stolen Jaguar was found.

Please try to get your facts right because everything in his story about the car theft was checked by police and defence.
Neither prosecution or defence have ever claimed Hanratty had an " accomplice " when he stole the black Mark V11 Jaguar from Hallam Street near Portland Place, Great Portland Street, just behind BBC Broadcasting House on the evening on 6/7 October .He took the registration number of the dashboard,and dashed to see a man he knew who had a garage in Soho where he bought a key to fit it -I can supply further details if need be .
In fact Hanratty's account was verified down to the last detail by Kleinman including his description of its floor gear change,overdrive and maroon upholstery.
There was never any claim by anyone other than you that he had any 'accomplice' so please don't muddy the waters further---lets just keep to what has been recorded about this event.

Hanratty drove this car ,on his own ,from London to Manchester on the evening of October 6/7 1961 .
This alone supplies all the evidence needed that he was quite expert at such 'ventures' and could drive cars with quite sophisticated mechanics-he was a car thief for goodness sake. Also the evidence given by several of his friends about being taken out in expensive cars plus the lifts and drives into the countryside in the Sunbeam Sports car e.g. Louise Anderson,witness for the prosecution and several girl friends named at the trial [the evidence by the girls is provided by Paul Foot in the John Lennon film entitled "Did Britain Murder Hanratty? " where Foot interviews those girls each of whom testified at the trial apparently.[I hope to be able to provide a 'you tube 'clipping from the film in the next month or so ]

[EddieX]

The debate about the Morris Minor is a curious one for anyone who knows anything at all about cars.The Morris Minor shares with the old mini the honour of having been the most basic,simplest engine on the road -and an extremely easy simple car to drive.
Hanratty could drive a number of cars as testified in the John Lennon film by his very pretty girl friends who he took out in several different cars he had 'borrowed' [to put it euphemistically]---and not one suggested he was anything other than a competent driver.

What cars had Hanratty driven between leaving prison in March 1961 and getting behind the wheel of 847BNH in the early hours of 23 August 1961 and on which occasions had he driven them? And what evidence was given at the trial on this?

I can only find reference to a black Consul being stolen by Hanratty and Terry in July 1961 which led to the latter being arrested in Shrewsbury town centre while the former ran away. When on his own, Hanratty, the supposedly accomplished car thief, travelled by hitch hiking from lorries or by public transport. He went from Shrewsbury to Newport, from there to Cardiff, both by lorry; Cardiff to Liverpool by lorry and then Liverpool to Rhyl by bus.

When the Jag was stolen in October 1961, Hanratty again had an accomplice with whom he separated in Manchester where the stolen Jaguar was found. Hanratty again when on his own was reduced to travelling by public transport and had to get a train from Manchester to Liverpool.

From the above we can conclude that Hanratty stole cars when assisted by an accomplice (or perhaps that should be the other way round), when Hanratty was left to his own devices then his preference was for public transport or hitched lifts. The reason for this is not far to seek when we look at what happens when Hanratty was legitimately in possession of a motor car, to wit the Irish hire car and the Sunbeam, he crashed them. And what happened to 847 BHN? It got crashed.

The two cars which we know that Hanratty did drive, rather than the accomplice driving, both suffered damage in a fairly short period of time. The same happened to the Morris Minor.

[Natalie Severn]

The debate about the Morris Minor is a curious one for anyone who knows anything at all about cars.The Morris Minor shares with the old mini the honour of having been the most basic,simplest engine on the road -and an extremely easy simple car to drive.
Hanratty could drive a number of cars as testified in the John Lennon film by his very pretty girl friends who he took out in several different cars he had 'borrowed' [to put it euphemistically]---and not one suggested he was anything other than a competent driver.

[EddieX]

There was certainly no evidence adduced by the conscientiousness Mr Sherrard that Hanratty had driven a Morris Minor, nor does there seem to have been any evidence that he had actually been in one. Do you say different?

If Hanratty had had experience of the marque, I am sure that we would have heard about it.

[Limehouse]

Eddie, you state as 'fact' that Hanratty had 'never been inside a humble Morris Mionor'. How on earth can you possibly know this as 'fact?'

[EddieX]

I don't think the issue is whether Hanratty drove badly at all. I think the issue is whether he would have needed someone to show him how the gears worked. An accomplished car thief like Hanratty was used to getting into stolen cars and getting away from the scene swiftly. I very much doubt that he would have needed someone to show him how to change gear. I also doubt that, in changing gear, he would have been so incompetent, that a witness heard the gears ginding and saw the car bunny hopping down the road.

Certainly Hanratty may have been a careless driver, but he could master the basics of gear changing etc. That much is proven.

But that is just the point, Hanratty was not an accomplished car thief, he was as incompetent at thieving cars as he was at burgling houses.

Is there any evidence that he drove at any time between leaving prison in March 1961 and driving the Morris Minor on 23 August 1961? I stand to be corrected, but the answer to that question seems to be 'none'. Indeed all the evidence points to Hanratty travelling by bus, train or taxi.

If that be the case, then it would have been nearly three and a half years since Hanratty drove a car. As Hanratty had never been properly taught to drive, coupled with his 'learning difficulties' and the fact that he had never been inside a humble Morris Minor, then I could well imagine his need of instruction as to the operation of the gears. My impression is that Hanratty would have been aware that the clutch pedal had to be depressed, but would be unsure as to the direction of the gear shift for the various gears.

[Natalie Severn]

- I've tried it with some of mine and it doesn't reach. My opinion is, that if this piece of cloth is connected to the crimes, then it may be the one worn by the gunman and may have had DNA evidence on it i.e. saliva. This is only speculation, but it also leads you to conclude some planning, as the gunman would need to have picked a piece of cloth that fitted around his face.

Pete

Good points Pete!

[propatria27]

(Incidentally, she also specifically said that the gunman had a 'handkerchief' to cover his face, outlaw fashion, rather than a piece of 'cloth'. As JH was habitually a natty dresser, and as he recognised a hankie in court as being his, I think it safe to assume that a hankie it was, and very likely to be the same one used to wrap the gun + ammo found on the 36A bus.

Graham, just seen this post on this thread. Although VS said she thought it was a handkerchief around the gunman's face, I don't think a normal sized hanky will fit around an adult male head - I've tried it with some of mine and it doesn't reach. My opinion is, that if this piece of cloth is connected to the crimes, then it may be the one worn by the gunman and may have had DNA evidence on it i.e. saliva. This is only speculation, but it also leads you to conclude some planning, as the gunman would need to have picked a piece of cloth that fitted around his face.

Pete

[Limehouse]

Hanratty could drive a car, but drove badly.

If you can drive a Jaguar badly you can drive a Morris Minor badly.

If you can drive a hire car in Ireland badly then you can drive a Sunbeam Alpine badly.

Hanratty drove the Morris Minor from Beds. to east London badly, this is evidenced by the bent front number plate, the bent rear bumper and the Redbridge witnesses who saw the car in motion.

It does not take two people to drive a car badly. One can do it on his own.

It does not take two people to kill a man with a gun. One can do it on his own.

It does not take two people to rape a woman. One can do it on his own.

The knicker fragment was discovered in 1994 as a result of Woffinden's and Bindman's efforts to have Hanratty's case put before the Court of Criminal Appeal, and that their instance was subject to DNA testing which eventually revealed that the one man responsible was James Hanratty.

I don't think the issue is whether Hanratty drove badly at all. I think the issue is whether he would have needed someone to show him how the gears worked. An accomplished car thief like Hanratty was used to getting into stolen cars and getting away from the scene swiftly. I very much doubt that he would have needed someone to show him how to change gear. I also doubt that, in changing gear, he would have been so incompetent, that a witness heard the gears ginding and saw the car bunny hopping down the road.

Certainly Hanratty may have been a careless driver, but he could master the basics of gear changing etc. That much is proven.

[Natalie Severn]

Eddie, you use phrases like TWOC and TIC....do you work for the law mate ?...coz I do if you can drive a Jaguar you can drive a Morris minor, Ford Mondeo or scenic megane if you can drive a car you can drive a car...end of !....so if he can't drive a car how does he get from rural Bedfordshire to NE London and then dump it driving badly through lanes and villages if he avoided the main roads.....and nobody saw him turn up in Dorney reach or Maidenhead or Slough railway stations on an August summers day.....come on if he killed MG and raped VS he did not act alone....no one man is capable of doing that on his own and then he puts the murder weapon under a seat on a bus to Peckham ...were Del boy and Trigger gonna get rid for him ?.....this is a plot that got too hot and the nicker fragment that was " found " in the early 90's by a Kempston Hq worker....really !

Great Post Stevo---am very impressed by these posts-you really do know what you are on about---great stuff!

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Eddie, No I'm on the right thread mate, my point is that I am convinced JH did not act alone, this thread is about Gregsten's boss and perhaps people trying to intervene, if you read the last few lines of my post I do not believe he acted as a lone desperado who just happens to find a courting couple in a remote field in south Buckinghamshire who makes them drive to a place between Luton and Bedford on a main road, why would you do that and kill one, rape the other and shoot her and take the trouble to drive to North east London and dump the car you had just blown a man's head off.....but you've never been convicted or committed a violent crime before. If what we are told about JH 's previous is true then he was a car thief even his brother tells us he was an accomplished one. A morris minor was a fairly basic car in it's day and if he was a bad driver as you suggest he may have been why stop and have a conversation with a couple in Clophill village ( who Beds police dismissed ) .....what would I be doing had I just done that...keep going and stop for nobody and once you get to the bottom of Deadman's hill going south it's a straight run.

I believe that VG complained to others about her predicament with hubby's affair and others decided to " sort " it .....just my opinion, cheers, Steve

Excellent post Steve---one can tell instantly you really know what you are talking about viz a viz the police angle

[Natalie Severn]

Hanratty could drive a car, but drove badly.

If you can drive a Jaguar badly you can drive a Morris Minor badly.

If you can drive a hire car in Ireland badly then you can drive a Sunbeam Alpine badly.

Hanratty drove the Morris Minor from Beds. to east London badly, this is evidenced by the bent front number plate, the bent rear bumper and the Redbridge witnesses who saw the car in motion.

.

Can you quote your source for this statement that he drove the Sunbeam or any other car 'badly'---ie apart from the scrape in Ireland?
I can quote sources where girls who went out with him in the car said his driving was fine-only Carol France is on record saying otherwise and -well she would wouldnt she-like Sherrard said-appeared to want to damage him in court ....

[Natalie Severn]

Accomplices in any criminal activity mean lowered security - I don't believe that Hanratty, for example, carried out any burglaries except on his own.

Graham

This is a very interesting angle on this case Graham-though I am not convinced that this was anything other than a 'gas meter' job ---as Acott is reported to have told the Sunday Times investigative journalist,Lewis Chester-a journalist from that time who strongly believed in Hanratty's total innocence and still working in journalism I understand.
Anyway, I have a rather strong rebuttal here of your speculation that Hanratty 'always burgled alone- clearly he did not 'always burgle alone' .

The following is taken from transcripts from Hanratty to police dated 30/12/1961 and written on a sixties typewriter in courier script!-may try to scan it later:

It begins " I did a job one afternoon in the middle of July in Hendon Way........
.........[he describes how owners were on holiday so :
"I went backto the West End-I went to the Club and asked Dixie if he knew anyone with a motor-I could not steal one that time of day-he[France] said "What have you got?" -[then] "he said he knew someone with a motor-We went to a club-man not there-he then went to another club and saw doorman H-[he is oldish and has a record] he has a green Rover.Dixie and H- came with me-Dixie was desperate then ,he had no money and was out of work-we got to the house about 6pm.H- parked car at bottom of road .Dixie walked up to the house with me and stood on the corner of street......and it describes a joint operation involving-in the end -6 people in total.

[Graham]

Eddie, you use phrases like TWOC and TIC....do you work for the law mate ?...coz I do if you can drive a Jaguar you can drive a Morris minor, Ford Mondeo or scenic megane if you can drive a car you can drive a car...end of !....so if he can't drive a car how does he get from rural Bedfordshire to NE London and then dump it driving badly through lanes and villages if he avoided the main roads.....and nobody saw him turn up in Dorney reach or Maidenhead or Slough railway stations on an August summers day.....come on if he killed MG and raped VS he did not act alone....no one man is capable of doing that on his own and then he puts the murder weapon under a seat on a bus to Peckham ...were Del boy and Trigger gonna get rid for him ?.....this is a plot that got too hot and the nicker fragment that was " found " in the early 90's by a Kempston Hq worker....really !

Murders comparable to the A6 are the Zodiac and Son Of Sam killers in the USA. Both were without any concrete motive, as was the A6. 'Zodiac' drove to places looking for courting couples in parked cars, and shot them; David Berkowitz, 'Son Of Sam', approached courting couples in parked cars on foot. In neither case has it been suggested, to my knowledge, that both killers could not have acted alone, or had to have an accomplice. Berkowitz was caught by accident via an unpaid parking-ticket; 'Zodiac' was never caught. Accomplices in any criminal activity mean lowered security - I don't believe that Hanratty, for example, carried out any burglaries except on his own.

Graham