scan of Hanratty statement re Rhyl alibi

[NickB]

The Odeon and Plaza are correctly situated on Natalie's map (previous post) but the Crosville coach station is in the wrong place. It was next to the site of the old town hall (which became Baxters the butchers) at 78 High Street.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hdCXPUm_Pxk/VU-9z1ZaCsI/AAAAAAAANUM/SEBM-KOw0Ic/s1600/1950s%2Bb%2B-%2BGlyn%2BRees.jpg

https://i2-prod.dailypost.co.uk/incoming/article11079326.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/rhyl-1960s.jpg

The map shows how far Ingledene was from Dixie's Cafe - not at the back of it!

[Spitfire]

The Odeon and Plaza are correctly situated on Natalie's map (previous post) but the Crosville coach station is in the wrong place. It was next to the site of the old town hall (which became Baxters the butchers) at 78 High Street.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hdCXPUm_Pxk/VU-9z1ZaCsI/AAAAAAAANUM/SEBM-KOw0Ic/s1600/1950s%2Bb%2B-%2BGlyn%2BRees.jpg

https://i2-prod.dailypost.co.uk/incoming/article11079326.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/rhyl-1960s.jpg

The map shows how far Ingledene was from Dixie's Cafe - not at the back of it!

Thank you for that. I'd always assumed that the coach station was where the present bus terminus is, namely just outside the railway station.

I've updated my map accordingly.

[Graham]

I had several customers in North Wales, and took time out on one visit about 20 years ago to have a look at Rhyl. What was puzzling to me at that time was I thought Dixie's was right across the road from Ingledene, which it wasn't - I never did find it. I also missed the illuminated betting-shop sign, mainly because at the time of my visit I wasn't aware of it, and it probably wouldn't have been lit during the day.

I do recall that the Ingledene sign was still there.

Graham

[Spitfire]

And here is a photo of The Dixie Snack Bar and I assume its proprietor.

There is some debate as to whether the DSB is in Sydenham Avenue or Sandringham Avenue.

[Spitfire]

I've now discovered a third cinema in the vicinity of the coach station, namely The Regal which had the postal address of 103-105 High Street Rhyl (now demolished and the site occupied by a Lloyds pharmacy) and which was showing the Guns of Navarone for six days commencing Monday 21 August 1961. This was the film that Hanratty said he saw in Liverpool after sending the telegram on Thursday, 24 August, although I have never understood why he could not have got an earlier train from Lime Street to Euston.

[NickB]

The proprietor of Dixie's Cafe was Ernest Gordon. He was one of the people Evans canvassed to be a witness on Panorama, along with customers in Dixie's, but he only persuaded Jones.

Seeing The Guns of Navarone was in the original Liverpool alibi, so it is unclear whether it would have been part of the revised alibi had that been presented first. The Liverpool/Rhyl join is shaky at both ends.

[Graham]

He was one of the people Evans canvassed to be a witness on Panorama, along with customers in Dixie's, but he only persuaded Jones.

Who later, when questioned, confessed to Nimmo that Evans had 'leaned' on him to give a falsified statement.

Graham

[NickB]

Looks to me like Dixie's was at 174 Wellington Road, currently occupied by the hairdressers Salon Seven.

Although it is difficult to compare with the equivalent Sydenham Avenue corner because a building is no longer there.

[Spitfire]

I have now acquired access to (most of, some of page 28 and page 29 is missing, as is the plan referred to) the 1975 Hawser Report wherein the location of Ingledene is referred to as follows:-

"229(a)Kinmel Street is very easy to find. There are two good landmarks for
it: the Odeon Cinema and the Bus Station. Opposite her house (Ingledene) is the Windsor Hotel and nearby a betting shop which had opened in July 1961. (The map of Rhyl which was produced during the trial shows that the Bus Station is immediately adjacent to and to the north of Kinmel Street: and the Railway Station is on the other side of~that is to the south of Kinmel Street. A street plan of Rhyl is appended to this Report.)*"

I have also seen an article in the Daily Telegraph of 13 November 1966, shortly after the infamous Panorama programme, headed "Paper seller disclaims TV alibi for Hanratty." wherein Charlie Jones aka White is interviewed, the report as to the location of the 'coach station' reads as follows:-

"Mr Jones told me it was shortly after 7 p.m.by the back entrance of the long-distance coach station in Crescent Road, Rhyl. The back entrance is in Edward Henry Street, a few yards from the seafront."


This clearly is not 'immediately adjacent' to Kinmel Street.

Was Hanratty's defence conducted on the basis that if he had travelled to Rhyl then he would have alighted from his double-decker bus on 22nd August and boarded it on 24th from a station or stop on the very street he was supposed to have found accommodation? If so, it would have provided another reason for the jury to disbelieve his account.

[NickB]

Hanratty claimed to have arrived at and departed from the Crosville coach station at 78 High Street. You can tell this by the location of ‘Coach Station’ on Jim’s map (shown on the previous page).

The bus journey was supposed to be a repeat of the Liverpool/Rhyl return trip that he had taken on 25/26 July 1961. On that occasion when walking between the High Street and the fairground he would have noticed the area in-between was teeming with guest houses. So he was saying that the guest house he stayed at on his return visit was vaguely somewhere in this large area.

[Spitfire]

Hanratty claimed to have arrived at and departed from the Crosville coach station at 78 High Street. You can tell this by the location of ‘Coach Station’ on Jim’s map (shown on the previous page).

I’m not sure that’s a valid inference. If you look at the sketched map one leaves the coach station and then pass Woolies and a picture house before turning right onto the road upon which the guesthouse was situated. To do this from the High Street bus station one would have to leave the bus station by turning left walking up the High Street to its junction with West Parade where Woollies was and then doing a 180 degree turn and walking back along the High Street past the bus station, past two cinemas, turning right at Kinmel Street opposite the second cinema.

Whereas from Crescent Road station the order of Station,Woolies and cinema is logical although Hanratty has omitted a right turn at Woolies, and would seem to have placed Woollies on the wrong side of the road.

Hawser does refer to a Crescent Road bus station in his report, and the Telegraph reporter was satisfied that all Crosville long distance coaches terminated and originated there rather than the High St station, but this does not seem to have been appreciated by those involved in the trial at the time.

[NickB]

I think Woolies is on the correct side of the road, but it was at the end of the High Street rather than in the middle as shown on the map. So if you make this one alteration (moving Woolies to the far right) the map is consistent with 78 High Street being the location for the coach station. Also I think it is indicating you turn right before the picture house (presumably the Odeon) as the next set of lines crossing the High Street is the railway line, not another road.

Crescent Road seems way out of the area. It is not just the turning right at Woolies that is missing, you would need to turn left into Water Street and then right into West Parade and pass Queen Street before reaching Woolies.

Either way, something we can agree on is that he was vague about the location of the guest house. It is noticeable that it is not marked on the map, and the accompanying statement simply says it is one of the turnings on the right. Then in court he said it was at the back of Dixie's cafe.

Swanwick: “How did you find your way back to the boarding-house?”

Hanratty: "I know what you are going to say: 'How did you remember it then if you can't remember it now?'."

Swanwick: “You are a bit fly, aren't you?”

Hanratty: "No, I'm not being a bit fly."

Swanwick: “How did you find your way back to the boarding-house?”

Hanratty: "I found my way back in the normal way."

Swanwick: “But you cannot give directions now?”

Hanratty: "I have given directions. The boarding-house is at the back of Dixie's facing toward a railway."

So the guest house could be any one of the many between the High Street and the fairground.

[NickB]

This photo of the Crescent Road coach station tends to confirm that it was used for the long distance destinations ...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wJPHw-5y3EA/VcTGzgmaj2I/AAAAAAAAOeQ/bbb1cfy-X1Q/s1600/1974%2BCrosville%2BBus%2BStation%2BCrescent%2BRd.jpg

... compared with the local destinations in photos of the High Street bus station linked to previously.

I imagine the Warrington double-decker shown is similar in appearance to the one from Liverpool in 1961.

[Spitfire]

Here some pics of a double decker delivered in March 1961. Possibly the one that conveyed Jim back to the Pool in July 1961.

Charlie White/Jones' statement was that he was near the Edward Henry St back entrance of the long distance coach station when approached by Hanratty. Charlie was hoping to catch customers leaving the Pavillion Theatre circus performance which had begun at 6pm. However on 22 Aug 1961, there was only the one performance which began at 7.30 pm.

My question is, did the trial proceed on the basis that the coach station to which Hanratty travelled was the one at the junction of High St and Kinmel St? Does anyone have a copy of the Hawser report with the map of Rhyl used at the trial?

[NickB]

Alfie and Sherlock have quoted from Hawser, so I assume they have copies.

The map was presented to Hanratty during his cross-examination. He was unable to place the guest house, except to say that it was on the seaward side of the railway line.

I think he would have been asked about the coach station’s location then, particularly if the prosecution wanted to show that he only had to fall out of the bus to be in Kinmel Street. But if he used Crescent Road he would know it was close to the sea and therefore not adjacent to Kinmel Street.

We are hampered again by newspapers reporting only bits of his evidence. However if the prosecution had been able to score on this it would be more likely to be reported, so my guess is that he pointed out it was a different coach station.