A6 Rebooted

[Sherlock Houses]

Deadman's Hill then and now images

Really good snap of location from 1961, I was there just last June showing the wife the spot where it all took place. Now of course as Graham says it is under the road, and you can actually drive in and out of the layby. Also the trees and shrubbery are quite dense, It is used a lot by people parking up and taking strolls or walking their dogs in Maulden woods. I have to say though being as close to the farm cottages as this ,even given that the snap makes the buildings look a bit closer than they actually are,a person having blazed away in the dead of night with his pistol ,wouldn't want to hang around,

Having never actually visited the murder scene at Deadman's Hill I have spent some time recently trying to familiarise myself [via Google Street View] with the geography of the area.
I stand to be corrected here, but I believe that the tree seen on the central reservation in the 2015 image below is the very same tree pictured in the 1961 image.
The cottages [Oxley's Cottages] seen so clearly in the 1961 photo are now hidden from view by shrubbery.

[NickB]

The view from the other direction in the first 6 photos here ....

http://www.alamy.com/search/Imageres...2988721&comp=1

The other photos show the lay-by which is sometimes mistaken for the scene of the crime.

[Graham]

The tree as in the 'old' photo is I think roughly where the Morris was parked on that fateful night. I would agree that it's the same tree as in the 'modern' photo, and a good marker for A6 enthusiasts.

On one of my several visits to the modern lay-by, as I drove out I spotted what I could swear was an old bouquet of flowers in the central reservation. Unfortunately I wasn't prepared to risk my neck for a closer look, but if flowers they were then I suppose that *someone* must have put them there in remembrance of the crime.

The other grisly 'attraction' of the area is the ruined St Mary's Church, Clophill, scene of some horrible black magic rituals in the 1960's. It's not actually on Deadman's Hill itself, but not far away from where the A507 crosses the A6. At one time you could walk through the ruins, but not sure if that's possible now.

Graham

[NickB]

Shortly before the shrubbery obscured Oxley's Cottages ...

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/64560

[Sherlock Houses]

Leaving Deadman's Hill northwards or southwards ??

According to Valerie Storie the gunman asked Michael Gregsten to turn the car around in the lay-by at Deadman's Hill. It would then have been facing south [towards Luton]. The attached image approximates to the position the Morris Minor would have been in at the moment Michael Gregsten's dead body was dragged [see arrowed lines] from the driver's side door.

Miss Storie stated that she saw the car exit the lay-by [by the RAC box] and drive off in the direction of Luton. Would she really have been able, lying on her back in such a seriously shot-up state, to see the car a hundred or more yards way at the far end of the lay-by ? I have strong doubts.

[NickB]

“I heard him walk back to the car. I heard him get in. I heard him slam the door. I saw him put the headlights on, and he started to drive off. He drove off in the direction of Luton."

I presume that since she did not see the car go northwards on the A6 close to where she was lying, she just heard the car noise get fainter and knew it had gone southwards.

[moste]

According to Valerie Storie the gunman asked Michael Gregsten to turn the car around in the lay-by at Deadman's Hill. It would then have been facing south [towards Luton]. The attached image approximates to the position the Morris Minor would have been in at the moment Michael Gregsten's dead body was dragged [see arrowed lines] from the driver's side door.

Miss Storie stated that she saw the car exit the lay-by [by the RAC box] and drive off in the direction of Luton. Would she really have been able, lying on her back in such a seriously shot-up state, to see the car a hundred or more yards way at the far end of the lay-by ? I have strong doubts.

I have strong doubts too. I think Nick is not appreciating the powers of perception she would be lacking in the terrible condition she was in. Anyhow here is a snap from 2014 'Oxley cottages' I would imagine the police would have be very interested in talking to each one of the house holders following the crime.(How the passages of time have been arrested by the present owners of these beautiful 19th century farm cottages.

[moste]

Having never actually visited the murder scene at Deadman's Hill I have spent some time recently trying to familiarise myself [via Google Street View] with the geography of the area.
I stand to be corrected here, but I believe that the tree seen on the central reservation in the 2015 image below is the very same tree pictured in the 1961 image.
The cottages [Oxley's Cottages] seen so clearly in the 1961 photo are now hidden from view by shrubbery.

The tree, I would also agree is the same from then and now, on Deadmans Hill, note the slight lean to the east of both pictures. I'm just seeing if I can upload a Google Earth image of modern Slough, and indicating with a yellow pin the locations of interest in this case, for anyone wondering about perceptions of distances, etc. Exact location of Marsh Lane is of course not 100 % certain but close enough I think. the other spots are accurate I believe. Note close proximity of Huntercombe lane with Anthony Way. Extreme right (east side of map) is Langley manor i.e. road research lab.
The dog track is a Tesco now, but was very close to Slough railway station, so very convenient for Alphons trips from Paddington and back.

[Graham]

“I heard him walk back to the car. I heard him get in. I heard him slam the door. I saw him put the headlights on, and he started to drive off. He drove off in the direction of Luton."

I presume that since she did not see the car go northwards on the A6 close to where she was lying, she just heard the car noise get fainter and knew it had gone southwards.

Morris Minors, like most cars having the BMC Series A engine/gearbox, have a very distinctive sound when being reversed. Valerie wouldn't have had to see the car to know if it was being reversed, i.e., u-turned to head north out of the lay-by. However, there was nothing to prevent Hanratty exiting the lay-by at the southern end and then heading north.

On the subject of the lay-by, another puzzle of this case is why John Kerr apparently never heard the shots - he was at his station at the southern end during the shooting. One possible explanation is that even in those distant days the countryside was rarely quiet even at night - there could well have been guns going off all night courtesy of local gamekeepers and poachers. Still a bit puzzling, though. I can understand if the residents of Oxley Cottages heard nothing, as they'd have been fast asleep (or otherwise engaged...).

I wonder what the market-price of those cottages is....

Graham

[Sherlock Houses]

On the subject of the lay-by, another puzzle of this case is why John Kerr apparently never heard the shots - he was at his station at the southern end during the shooting. One possible explanation is that even in those distant days the countryside was rarely quiet even at night - there could well have been guns going off all night courtesy of local gamekeepers and poachers. Still a bit puzzling, though. I can understand if the residents of Oxley Cottages heard nothing, as they'd have been fast asleep (or otherwise engaged...).

John Kerr didn't start his shift until 6.00am. Two men, John Smith and Michael Black, were on the night shift [ Woffinden book pages 36-37].

[Graham]

You're perfectly correct, SH - a simple memory-lapse on my part. Still, whoever was down there apparently didn't hear the shots.

Graham

PS: does anyone know how to get rid of this annoying 'wide screen' effect? I have enough probs with the idiosyncracies of this website without that...grumble, grumble.

G

[Sherlock Houses]

PS: does anyone know how to get rid of this annoying 'wide screen' effect? I have enough probs with the idiosyncracies of this website without that...grumble, grumble.

G

This always happens Graham when someone attaches an image that is too wide.
The wide-screen effect lasts for that particular page of 10 posts. It will disappear when a new page [of 10 posts] appears.

If Moste attaches further Google Earth images I would advise him to use the 'Paint' program [which comes pre-installed on Windows operating systems] to reduce the size of the Google Earth image which he has downloaded. When you open 'Paint' click on the 'Image' tab and then click on Resize/Skew. You can then reduce the size by changing the 100% to say 70% or 80 % in the Horizontal and Vertical boxes. May sound a little complicated at first but it isn't.

[Sherlock Houses]

I hope Moste will excuse me for taking the liberty of reducing the size of his two recently uploaded attachments and re-posting them to avoid the excessive wide-screen effect.

[Graham]

Thanks SH. I didn't know you could modify pictures, etc., after posting.

Graham

[moste]

Morris Minors, like most cars having the BMC Series A engine/gearbox, have a very distinctive sound when being reversed. Valerie wouldn't have had to see the car to know if it was being reversed, i.e., u-turned to head north out of the lay-by. However, there was nothing to prevent Hanratty exiting the lay-by at the southern end and then heading north.

On the subject of the lay-by, another puzzle of this case is why John Kerr apparently never heard the shots - he was at his station at the southern end during the shooting. One possible explanation is that even in those distant days the countryside was rarely quiet even at night - there could well have been guns going off all night courtesy of local gamekeepers and poachers. Still a bit puzzling, though. I can understand if the residents of Oxley Cottages heard nothing, as they'd have been fast asleep (or otherwise engaged...).

I wonder what the market-price of those cottages is....

Graham

Hi Graham.
I know what you mean about the sound of the Morris 1000 engine. However it would appear that the assailant had M G turn the vehicle around before turning the engine off, because there was no north end exit onto the A6 in those days. Further, if like myself, and many other people who believe Hanratty would have considered driving a Morris Minor 'a piece of cake' ,then it probably wouldn't have entered his head to have the car turned around.