A6 Rebooted

[Victor]

The plod had known since Sunday August 27th that Alphon had hazelish coloured eyes. If they had taken any heed of Valerie's new description of the gunman's eye colour they would have ruled Alphon out by that criteria alone.

Hi James,

Norma is insisting that Valerie would not have been able to tell the difference between blue and hazel eyes in the lighting available, so maybe the police used the same criterion and couldn't eliminate Alphon on that basis alone.

But no, they brought Alphon in for questioning on two more occasions during September and then placed him on an ID parade, confident that they had their man.

Surely the police should question anyone who may have further details - Nudds was questioned 3 times, and yet they were confident that he wasn't the murderer. Therefore I think it's a step too far to say the police were confident that Alphon was "their man" just someone who needed to be questioned further.

KR,
Vic.

[caz]

Said this before, will say it again: had Hanratty stuck to his Liverpool 'Alibi',
then the jury may well have been convinced, or at least given him the benefit of the doubt, which they were really obliged to do. When Hanratty came up with the Rhyl nonsense, Sherrard's heart must have missed a few beats, as it is palapably transparent, honest citizens of Rhyl notwithstanding. If the Rhyl 'alibi' is kosher, then why the hell didn't Hanratty use it from the start?

Hi Graham,

Whatever we may think about the individual jury members who found Hanratty guilty, the simple truth is that the prosecution succeeded in convincing them, while the defence failed. Reasonable people don't happily send a man to his death in cases where the defence has provided them with reasonable cause for doubt.

But was it the defence who let Hanratty down, or did he let himself down? As you suggest, he clearly didn't know whose side he was on, or he would have mentioned his stay in Rhyl at the earliest opportunity if he was really there while the gunman was busy committing rape and murder way down south.

The only scenario that would have made any sense at all to a jury of any level of intelligence was a guilty, desperate and not too bright young man suddenly introducing a bogus trip to Rhyl when Liverpool looked like it was going tits up.

There is no other explanation that holds the tiniest drop of water - or Hanratty's trusty (and trusting) defenders would have milked it furiously (excuse the mixed metaphors) in time for the second appeal. They must have known it was all over bar the shouting, which quickly diminished to a low whimper. Whose fault was that?

Love,

Caz
X

[Natalie Severn]

I thought it might help to understand the layout of South Kinmel St in relation to Kinmel Street where Ingledene and the Windsor Hotel are situated .
South Kinmel street lies behind Kinmel Street .It is an extremely narrow one way street and is entered and exited from on either side of Ingledene.Both entrances lie equidistant from the Windsor Hotel opposite.It is off the beaten path and I believe Hanratty was advised to try South Kinmel Street because he was more likely to find a vacancy there after 9pm than on the main thoroughfare of Kinmel Street.
What I cannot see having happened are many young men answering Hanratty"s description even locating South Kinmel Street and then knocking on the doors there at gone 9pm inquiring whether they had vacancies in late August 1961!
I can see that as being a possibility in the main B&B streets of Rhyl,but not in the tiny, tucked away South Kinmel Street.
Ingledene,the Bed and Breakfast run by Mrs Jones is in the centre picture of the first row and is first on left,next to the yellow house.The last picture in the next row showing the exit from South Kinmel Street shows the pint shop with the bike in front of it.A neighbour of Mrs Jones owns the print shop and knew Mrs Jones well.She spoke very highly of her as a good neighbour, who ran a spotlessly clean and popular guest house and apparently she was also a good friend,as were the witnesses from South Kinmel Street, Mrs Davies Sr,Mr Davies,Mrs Betty Davies, Mrs Margaret Walker, and Mrs Ivy Vincent.

[Natalie Severn]

This particular shot of the entrance to South Kinmel Street from Kinmel Street shows both the narrowness of the street and a view of Rhyl Railway Station behind the houses. The bus Station was situated in Kinmel Street,close to the entrance to Rhyl Railway Station.
An important point to remember is that only Mrs Margaret Walker and Mrs Ivy Vincent made a statement to the police in February 1962.Mrs Walker"s husband had been against her getting involved.Mrs Betty Davies ,as I understand it,only came forward reluctantly in 1968 and made a statement to Paul Foot.Her mother in law,Mrs Margaret Davies also made a statement at that point to Paul Foot, as did her husband Mr Noel Davies.Apparently Mrs Betty Davies,then 26 years old was on her own in the house as it was beginning to get dark.A young man knocked on the door and asked if she had accomodation.She refused.A little later that evening she ran next door but three to her mother in law"s house,number 27 where Mrs Margaret Walker was with her by then ,chatting about a family matter of some seriousness.She told her mother in law about the young man who came knocking and Mrs Davies Sr agreed her daughter in law had acted wisely being she was on her own. Mrs Walker ,by that time,had also seen the young man and spoken with him and had suggested he go back to Kinmel Street.So each woman remembered the event clearly because of what had followed in the February of the following year 1962.Mr Noel Davies also remembered his wife telling him about it so it couldn"t have been a kind of a "daily event" in South Kinmel Street,
Best
Norma

[caz]

You're not helping Hanratty, Nats.

So what was the matter with him? Did he simply forget all this innocent activity when he first tried to convince the 'filth' he was nowhere near the crime scene? Why did he let it get to court, let alone wait until the judge was about to sport his black cap, before he suddenly thought this might be worth a mention?

If he was that badly brain damaged, then I have to agree, he should never have hanged!

Love,

Caz
X

[Victor]

The bus Station was situated in Kinmel Street,close to the entrance to Rhyl Railway Station.

Hi Norma,

The quote above particularly stands out - if the bus station was that close to the Ingledene then your assumption that not many holidayers would try the street is put into doubt, especially when combined with the fact that the Ingledene was full that particular August evening in 1961.

KR,
Vic.

[Natalie Severn]

re Victor"s point.First you cannot see this "road" at all.It looks just like a back entry -about that width, so I doubt very much newcomers to Rhyl would immediately look there! There is no sign to even let people know there is anything there! They certainly wouldn"t see it as a road ,with B&B"s in , from Kinmel Street.I do ofcourse agree newcomers in a similar boat to Hanratty might well be directed there by locals who knew of it or landladies who themselves had no vacancies but knew the Sth Kinmel St neighbours may have.
We don"t actually know whether Hanratty got off the Crosville bus at the Kinmel Street stop or on the prom stop much further along, which was and still is another bus stop for the Liverpool bus[the stop is now called Aquarium Street] .Its very near the fairground ,right next to River Street where several people said a chap looking like Hanratty had called asking about vacancies.
I was reading the Daily Mirror last night which heavily covered the first suspect the police held,Peter Alphon.Like Hanratty he had telephoned the Mirror and protested his innocence.The Mirror later ran a front page story under a massive heading asking whether Alphon was "fitted up"!Much is made of Alphon"s father working in Scotland Yard.
The Mirror deals with one of Hanratty"s very first telephone calls in a rather interesting way
viz-"Another man is now sought by police who also stayed at the Vienna Hotel. This man has telephoned Barry Harding at the Mirror and also like Alphon vehemently protests his innocence."Harding asked him if he had an alibi for the night of 22nd August and the man said he had gone to LIverpool that day to do business with three men who would testify for him.
The interesting bit is that as soon as Alphon is freed Hanratty is being sought also via the VIenna Hotel.The Mirror"s headline runs "Another man sought for the A6 murder who protests his innocence".This was a good 5 weeks after the murder when Hanratty had been seen in his chalk stripe suit Jacket on a number of occasions;when he had been seen by many people to have been acting exactly as usual etc.
Caz.I disagree that either Alphon"s bogus alibi about seeing his mother on 22nd August or Hanratty"s bogus alibi about the three men in LIverpool who could vouch for his whereabouts ,showed anything other than a natural response to fear and panic about being fingered by the police for a capital offence!Alphon said he suffered nightmares throughout about the noose being round his neck choking him.Do people always think straight in such circumstances? I doubt it.

[Victor]

so I doubt very much newcomers to Rhyl would immediately look there!

Well Norma, we know Hanratty wasn't a newcomer to Rhyl, he'd been there at least once before!

KR,
Vic.

[Natalie Severn]

Well Norma, we know Hanratty wasn't a newcomer to Rhyl, he'd been there at least once before!

KR,
Vic.

Yes, and I know it has been suggested that Hanratty"s search for lodgings in the Kinmel,South Kinmel Street area could have taken place on Hanratty"s previous visit to Rhyl,after he stayed one night at Terry Evans on July 25th.But as Paul Foot states in his book,"Who killed Hanratty?",Mrs Davies,disposes once and for all of that theory.It is clear she was visited by the same young man who visited Mrs Walker and Mrs Vincent.These meetings could not have taken place on July 25th because Mrs Davies was in Chatsworth House Nursing Home in Prestatyn,from July 25th to July 28th.
It was Mrs Davies who ran into her mother in law"s house to tell her she had turned the young man away.Mrs Davies senior lived at number 27 Sth Kinmel St on 22nd August 1961 where Mrs Walker was talking to her.Mrs Walkler was able to remember the exact date because of a family event that took place later in the week on 25th August.
Norma

[Derrick]

Hi Norma,

The quote above particularly stands out - if the bus station was that close to the Ingledene then your assumption that not many holidayers would try the street is put into doubt, especially when combined with the fact that the Ingledene was full that particular August evening in 1961.

KR,
Vic.

Hi Vic
Apart from Mr Sayle, most would have been repeat visitors. Lots of people, before foreign package deals would holiday at the seaside and stay at the same place, if it was a decently kept establishment, which Mrs Jones' place seemed to be according to the fondness with which she is remembered in Rhyl.

regards
Derrick

[Derrick]

Yes, and I know it has been suggested that Hanratty"s search for lodgings in the Kinmel,South Kinmel Street area could have taken place on Hanratty"s previous visit to Rhyl,after he stayed one night at Terry Evans on July 25th.But as Paul Foot states in his book,"Who killed Hanratty?",Mrs Davies,disposes once and for all of that theory.It is clear she was visited by the same young man who visited Mrs Walker and Mrs Vincent.These meetings could not have taken place on July 25th because Mrs Davies was in Chatsworth House Nursing Home in Prestatyn,from July 25th to July 28th.
It was Mrs Davies who ran into her mother in law"s house to tell her she had turned the young man away.Mrs Davies senior lived at number 27 Sth Kinmel St on 22nd August 1961 where Mrs Walker was talking to her.Mrs Walkler was able to remember the exact date because of a family event that took place later in the week on 25th August.
Norma

Hi Norma

You are quite right and this completely disproves the notion that Hanratty had stayed at Ingledene in July and not in August. In July he stayed with Terry Evans. Evan's mother rarely visited and he didn't have a green bath.

Mrs Davies, Mrs Walker, Mr Larman and Mr Dutton are, among them, quite sure of the 2 days that they saw Hanratty and that Hanratty said he was there.

He was also in Liverpool that afternoon in the shop being looked after by Mrs Dinwoodie and crucially helped by her granddaughter.

Someone else was the A6 murderer.

Hanratty is innocent.

Derrick

[Limehouse]

Hanratty was very foolish in not mentioning his Rhyl alibi much earlier. He explained his reasons for doing so and they were typical Hanratty logic which probably make little sense to those who believe him to be guilty but for me they have a ring of truth. Like Graham - I believe Hanratty's failure to mention Rhyl at the outset probably cost him his life - however - the change of alibi issue doe not prove his guilt.

More importantly - a good few people in Liverpool and Rhyl believed they saw and spoke to Hanratty during those crucial days. Contrastingly - surprisingly few people saw him in or near the scene of murder or anywhere else during that week. Valerie's testimony is open to doubt due to the discrepencies in the initial description of the attacker and the appearance of Hanratty and her identification of an innocent man at the first line-up. The witnesses claiming to have seen Hanbratty driving the car the following morning conflict with each other and with other statements that point to the car being abandoned much later than just after 7am that morning.

There are no more alleged sightings of Hanratty in the south of England after those made early that morning. So - if not in Liverpool or Rhyl - where was he? Why haven't/didn't other people come forward and say 'he couldn't have been in Liverpool/Rhyl because he was in my guesthouse/hotel/garden shed etc etc?

Precisely where was Hanratty during those days following the murder?

[Natalie Severn]

A very good question Julie!

[jimarilyn]

There are no more alleged sightings of Hanratty in the south of England after those made early that morning. So - if not in Liverpool or Rhyl - where was he? Why haven't/didn't other people come forward and say 'he couldn't have been in Liverpool/Rhyl because he was in my guesthouse/hotel/garden shed etc etc?

You've hit the nail right on the head with this searching question, Julie.

[NickB]

What about the friends he claimed to have stayed with in Liverpool - did they confirm that he stayed with them and took 2 days out to visit Rhyl?