A6 Rebooted

[moste]

Hi Cobalt. Hirons, if I recall correctly worked at the Shell station on the kingsbury roundabout.This chap was the ‘Acott preferred attendant to use as a witness’,completely side stepping Valerie’s insistence that it was the Regent station at London airport.
Of all the information Valerie gave the police, I would have thought that they would have considered this particularly tasty morsel, pretty inspiring.all very weird ,she maintained she had good cause to recollect’, since ‘Michael hated Regent fuel’. Comparing the two filling stations, Kingsbury circle was by far the most quiet. I guess Acott figured he could gain no mileage from a garage that served dozens of customers between 9.00 pm and midnight , and a large percentage of those asked for 2 gallons of petrol. I don’t know, very odd.

[Sherlock Houses]

Perhaps Gregsten missed a chance at the petrol station but it is cannot be easy to rationalise when a gun is pointing at your back.

The reason why I said Gregsten missed that ideal chance to improve his and Storie's plight Cobalt was that in Valerie Storie's own testimony she said words to the effect that she and Gregsten were on the lookout for a policeman during that fateful journey. She explained that they were going to mount the pavement if they came across one but whenever you desperately need one there's never a copper around.

[moste]

The reason why I said Gregsten missed that ideal chance to improve his and Storie's plight Cobalt was that in Valerie Storie's own testimony she said words to the effect that she and Gregsten were on the lookout for a policeman during that fateful journey. She explained that they were going to mount the pavement if they came across one but whenever you desperately need one there's never a copper around.

Which denies people the opportunity to insist that the couple were so stunned and rigid with fear, that they were incapable of making any decisions along those lines. (Well remembered SH) and as a further thought ,since apparently the couple were capable and allowed by their attacker to talk to each other in low tones (again ,odd), and as they had not secured a local bobby anywhere around , it should have gone like this “When I drop into third gear, brace yourself Val, I’m going to ram a lamp post!” (no seat belts in those days )
Again, the entire saga is,for me beyond belief.Far too fantastic .

[Alfie]

When Gregsten and Valerie parked up in the cornfield, did they turn the interior light in the Morrie on or not? I can't recall seeing a definite statement on this anywhere.

[NickB]

There was an exchange in Jan-18 between Graham and me about how Woffinden made changes to the first page of his book in the 1999 edition. He introduced a detour to Huntercombe Lane South. This was because of Henderson's evidence that he had seen a car resembling a Moggie parked there that night with its internal lights on. Personally I find Henderson's evidence unconvincing. Woffinden lays great store by it - but he seems motivated by wanting to prove that Valerie was lying by saying that they drove straight to the cornfield and that she did not say the internal lights were on.

[NickB]

I expressed that last bit badly.

In the first edition he was not saying Valerie was wrong about the internal light, but that she was probably wrong about the timing because if Henderson saw the car with the internal light on that must have been before the gunman arrived.

Then someone pointed out to him (or he realised) that the car Henderson reported as seeing was parked in Huntercombe Lane South, not at the cornfield entrance as he had assumed in the first edition. So he amended the second edition to say that they had stopped there first, then went on to the cornfield.

[Graham]

Hi Nick,

If I recall correctly, Foot suggested that Gregsten and Valerie, after leaving The Old Station Inn, drove towards Slough and then turned off onto Huntercombe Lane. I believe he also suggested that they stopped off at The Pineapple Inn on Huntercombe Lane, before moving off again to the cornfield. I can't remember if Foot suggested they had a drink at The Pineapple, or just parked nearby. There was, IIRC, also a suggestion that they were followed by a man on foot from the Pineapple down to the cornfield, but where this notion came from I have no idea. Unfortunately, I've lent my A6 books to a friend who got interested, so can't check.

Graham

[NickB]

I don't have the Foot book to hand either. I note that there is a Private Eye available on Ebay which appears to include his views on the Hawser report, if anyone wants it ... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRIVATE-E...4AAOSwUQBdya1r

When Alfie raises a subject he is usually on to something important, which is why I mentioned Henderson - because I think references to the internal light being on originate from his statement.

[Graham]

IIRC Henderson said he saw the car in the gateway to a field, parked just inside - and I've wondered if in fact he saw the car in the gateway. I can't remember the precise route Henderson said he took - does anyone know? One of the residents of the nearby cottages - was it a Mrs Climo? - said she often saw a grey Moggie parked in the field off Marsh Lane.

I must go and get my books back....

Graham

[Alfie]

I'd discount Henderson's sighting for two reasons: first because Valerie never mentioned Huntercombe Lane South or that she and Gregsten shifted their location; and second because its timing doesn't fit with Valerie's account, being out by anything from 20 to 30 minutes:

Henderson's statement: "I know I left Margaret [his girlfriend] at about 9.45" to motor-cycle home to Burnham. "When I came to the ‘S’ bends in Huntercombe Lane South, I saw a motor-car parked in a field on the offside of the road. There is a gap in the hedge right on the left bend when travelling towards the Bath Road. The car was definitely a Morris. I think a Morris 1000. It was facing into the field and about eight yards from the road. It was dark and I had the headlights of my motor-cycle on. I can only say that the car was a lightish colour. There was a light on inside the car. I think it was a fitted interior light. I could not see into the car because the rear window was misted. I did not think anything unusual and continued on my way home."

Valerie said: "I should say we left the Old Station Inn at about a quarter to nine." This would mean they should have arrived at the cornfield by 9.00 pm. Acott: "How long had you been sitting in the car before you heard the tap on the window?" "I suppose it must have been about twenty to twenty-five minutes." She said that when they parked the car, "I don’t think it was dark, it was twilight," but reckoned that it became "dark" shortly after they arrived.

Sunset on Aug 22 1961 was 8:09 pm; lighting up time was 8:35 pm.

I don't think they were sitting in the car "finalizing the plans" for a rally, so in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I'd wager that the light was off.

[Alfie]

Graham - I can't find Foot saying anything about a stop at the Pineapple inn. Here's the relevant passage: "The pub quickly filled up, and at about 9 pm, the couple left and drove back down the A4 towards Slough. They turned right down Huntercombe Lane and drove through the little village of Dorney and round in a half circle till they came to a cornfield off Marsh Lane, which also runs down from the A4."

Re Mrs Climo, Foot quotes a passage from the 'People': "I have told the police about the car I saw here on Tuesday night. It was in the cornfield where I have seen it parked several times before."

This tallies with Valerie saying they arrived at the field when it was not quite dark.

[NickB]

I wonder if Valerie specified that they went down Huntercombe Lane South, or if they deduced this from her comment that they took the third turning on the right - because if you include an unnamed stub road, the third turning on the right is Lake End Road.

[moste]

Someone would need a hell of a lot of gall and courage to approach a car in a country field , after dark ,knowing there were people inside, regardless of having a newly acquired gun in his/her pocket. Possibly Alphons line of country.

Valerie’s timing is half an hour behind Mary Lantz and David Henderson’s. Plus Valerie probably had the ulterior motive of not wanting It to be known that she was in a car in a field in the dark, with Gregsten . The former two persons had no such ulterior motives.unless we unleash the old lame duck,’they wanted to get in on the act’.A very small percentage of folks want to get involved ,in my experience, there is always those of the Trower ilk, but the vast majority are not interested, unless they can be of real help.
Valerie took a few truths to the grave with her I believe. Hopefully Chief superintendent Mathews doesn’t do the same.

[Alfie]

I wonder if Valerie specified that they went down Huntercombe Lane South, or if they deduced this from her comment that they took the third turning on the right - because if you include an unnamed stub road, the third turning on the right is Lake End Road.

Doubt Gregsten would have seen any point in driving a further 500 metres to Huntercombe Lane, so most likely they did take Lake End Road.

[moste]

Doubt Gregsten would have seen any point in driving a further 500 metres to Huntercombe Lane, so most likely they did take Lake End Road.

Good point Alf, have to be careful though with the geography of yesteryear, A huge motorway connector road , and an entire man made river system,( The Jubilee) has been built since those far off days, not to mention a massive rowing lake,( possibly encroaching on the locale of the corn field ).I was studying the google earth only the other day , trying to nail down a couple of possible left turn options off of the A 6 ,to justify the statement that ‘ the gunman had Michael turn off down quiet side lanes so that he could have a kip’ before reaching and supposedly settling for dead mans hill,It’s not a satisfying task, and compared to the Dorney area, apart from road widening and intersections converted to roundabouts, nothing much has changed.