A6 Rebooted

[OneRound]

Hi folks - as regards conspiracy and as some have previously suggested, I think there are two scenarios to at least be contemplated:

1. Others planned and carried out Gregsten's murder with the intention of Hanratty taking the rap;and/or

2. The police conspired to frame an innocent man, Hanratty, so as to put the case to bed and get their masters off their back.

Graham has driven up and down the A6 enough times not to need my help but I thought it was the first scenario he was querying and asking who would have done that and why.

Personally, I don't buy the first scenario at all. Any attempt to frame Hanratty in this regard would have been far too dependent upon luck in Hanratty not being able to produce a proveable alibi for the time concerned.

The second scenario goes further than my own thoughts on what happened although I have some sympathy with it. Whilst the particular judges in Hanratty's posthumous Court of Appeal judgement chose to take a different view, my own view is that police non-disclosure and the withholding of evidence denied Hanratty ''a fair trial that is the birthright of every British citizen''. That was as stated by the same Court in the case of Derek Bentley and the principal reason why his appeal was allowed, albeit the unfairness of Bentley's trial related to failings and prejudice of the trial judge rather than conduct of the police.

As previously posted, I would therefore have allowed Hanratty's appeal. However, that should not be treated as my claiming innocence upon his behalf.

Best regards,
OneRound

[Graham]

Good post, OR. Personally, I have always felt that JH didn't get a fair crack of the whip at his trial, beginning with the trial itself being at Bedford rather than the Old Bailey. The only reason for this I can recall is that it was felt that the trial would 'come on more quickly' at Bedford, ignoring the fact that there would be, and was, much local antipathy towards the defendant. It's well known to A6 devotees that when the verdict was given, even the judge, Mr Justice Gorman, was visibly surprised, given that his summing-up had been favourable to Hanratty. However, it was a unanimous verdict, as verdicts had to be in those days; had it not been unanimous, there would have been a re-trial. And I don't think I have to repeat to posters on this Forum that under Scottish Law the jury could have returned a verdict of Not Proven; which at least would have saved Hanratty's life, although he would have remained under serious suspicion.

Something which sticks in my mind, and I can't remember seeing mentioned on here in the past, is that Valerie Storie stated that the gunman said that he'd done CT and 'done the lot'. She didn't know what he meant by this, but remembered his saying such. CT, as we know, means Corrective Training, and Hanratty had recently been sentenced to 3 years CT. 'Done the lot' in criminal parlance means that he had served the full 3 years of his sentence. I understand from what I've read that, at that time, only 5 men in the UK who had recently been sentenced to CT had 'done the lot', and Hanratty was one of them. It strikes me that Acott would have fairly rapidly contacted all 5 men, including attempting to contact Hanratty, in order to establish their whereabouts on the night of 22 August. If the other 4 men who'd 'done the lot' had provable alibis, then this left Hanratty, who at the time had to all intents and purposes disappeared.

On 26 August he arrived at the Frances' home, where Carole France re-dyed his hair. He was, though, apparently living at the time at Louise Anderson's home. On 27 August, Hanratty's parents were contacted by police (I don't know whether Acott himself visited them) to advise that their son was wanted for house-breaking. They did not know where he was. To my mind, this is more than a mere coincidence, and strongly suggests that the police were, thanks to Valerie's evidence, viewing James Hanratty as an A6 murder suspect long before the 'Irish Connection'. I'd be interested in comments regarding.

Graham

[Sherlock Houses]

You could claim this was a name plucked at random, as you could claim that someone had guessed the PIN of your bank card, but if it was not Hanratty then surely it was someone framing Hanratty.

Wow, I never knew there were 9,999 different male names in the UK back in 1961.

[Sherlock Houses]

On 26 August he arrived at the Frances' home, where Carole France re-dyed his hair. He was, though, apparently living at the time at Louise Anderson's home. On 27 August, Hanratty's parents were contacted by police, (I don't know whether Acott himself visited them) to advise that their son was wanted for house-breaking. They did not know where he was. To my mind, this is more than a mere coincidence, and strongly suggests that the police were, thanks to Valerie's evidence, viewing James Hanratty as an A6 murder suspect long before the 'Irish Connection'. I'd be interested in comments regarding.
Graham

This is totally misleading and therefore a very important correction is in order, as it was a full month later, September 26th in fact, that Acott and Oxfraud [oops I mean Oxford] contacted Mr and Mrs Hanratty, to advise them that Jimmy was wanted with regards to car theft, not housebreaking.

[Graham]

This is totally misleading and therefore a very important correction is in order, as it was a full month later, September 26th in fact, that Acott and Oxfraud [oops I mean Oxford] contacted Mr and Mrs Hanratty, to advise them that Jimmy was wanted with regards to car theft, not housebreaking.

Check your Woffinden again. He states that on 27 August the Hanratty 'family' were told by police that James was wanted for housebreaking. Woffo does not say it was Acott and Oxford who contacted the family; just the 'police'. I can only repeat what your hero says, and see no real reason to doubt it.

Graham

[Spitfire]

Wow, I never knew that 26 September was a FULL month after the 27 August.


Jim Hanrapist (oops I mean Hanratty) was wanted by the police in connection with the TWOC of this little vehicle.



Of all of Hanmurderer's (oops I mean Hanratty's) legal problems, car theft would not be one of them. Theft involves the intention to permanently deprive the owner of the item stolen. It could not be said that Jim had that necessary intention. His crime in relation to the taking of 847 BHN was TWOC under section 217 of Road Traffic Act 1960.

[Spitfire]

Good post, OR. Personally, I have always felt that JH didn't get a fair crack of the whip at his trial, beginning with the trial itself being at Bedford rather than the Old Bailey.

I've never really understood why it should be said that Hanratty's defence would have had a better chance of success before a jury selected from the City of London and the County of Middlesex, than it would before the Bedfordshire jury which eventually determined his guilt. The A6 murder had achieved nationwide publicity before the arrest of Hanratty, and any adverse publicity would likewise be nationwide. Moreover it could be said that it would be unfair to Jim to try him by jury selected from the area where he committed many of his burglaries.

In my view the jury for many hours conscientiously considered the defence and ruled against it, I doubt whether Jim or his ramshackle alibi would have been any better received in the metropolis.

[Graham]

Yep, you're likely correct, Spitfire. Holding the trial at Bedford is, of course, another reason for his supporters to whinge. As has been said many times, he'd probably have done himself more good by holding onto his Liverpool 'alibi'. Of course, these days a defendant can't use the tactic of 'ambush alibi' once his trial has commenced.

Graham

[Alfie]

Something which sticks in my mind, and I can't remember seeing mentioned on here in the past, is that Valerie Storie stated that the gunman said that he'd done CT and 'done the lot'. She didn't know what he meant by this, but remembered his saying such. CT, as we know, means Corrective Training, and Hanratty had recently been sentenced to 3 years CT. 'Done the lot' in criminal parlance means that he had served the full 3 years of his sentence. I understand from what I've read that, at that time, only 5 men in the UK who had recently been sentenced to CT had 'done the lot', and Hanratty was one of them. It strikes me that Acott would have fairly rapidly contacted all 5 men, including attempting to contact Hanratty, in order to establish their whereabouts on the night of 22 August. If the other 4 men who'd 'done the lot' had provable alibis, then this left Hanratty, who at the time had to all intents and purposes disappeared.

'

Hi Graham - Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Valerie disclosed that the gunman said he'd 'done the lot' until Acott interviewed her on Sept 11 - the same day that the cartridge cases were found in the Vienna Hotel and Acott fixed upon Alphon as his culprit. It was a clue that Acott should and perhaps did follow up straight away, but I wonder how long in those pre-computer days it would have taken to comb the files for the names of prisoners who'd done the lot?

But your point stands: such a check should eventually have given police the name 'Hanratty', which would have been a crucial clue in the 'Who is Jimmy Ryan?' mystery they were trying to solve. The question we're left with is, when did this occur?

[Graham]

Alfie, I was under the distinct impression that the 'did the lot' statement came from a very early interview with Valerie. If I'm in error, I shall stand corrected. As an aside, the criminal records facilities around the country were, even in pre-computer days, pretty slick, according to a chap I know who worked in that area years ago.

Graham

[moste]

Yep, you're likely correct, Spitfire. Holding the trial at Bedford is, of course, another reason for his supporters to whinge. As has been said many times, he'd probably have done himself more good by holding onto his Liverpool 'alibi'. Of course, these days a defendant can't use the tactic of 'ambush alibi' once his trial has commenced.

Graham

Yeah that Sherard was a right whinger

[Alfie]

I'm trying to decide if Hanratty might have fared better had Sherrard disclosed Valerie and Gregsten's true relationship to the jury. What do you reckon would have been the pluses and minuses of him making her admit to their affair?

[Sherlock Houses]

Wow, I never knew that 26 September was a FULL month after the 27 August.

Well you know now, Shi [oops I mean Spitfire, aka mega nitpicker or picnicker, aka Oxfraudologist, aka establishment apologist]. In fact one month [28 days] plus an additional 2 days, making 30 days in total. Pretty good at arithmetic, eh ?

Jim Hanrapist (oops I mean Hanratty) was wanted by the police in connection with the TWOC of this little vehicle.

Sorry, but I just can't, for the life of me, see any kind of TWOC on this little car.
[/QUOTE]

[moste]

9Quote. Something which sticks in my mind, and I can't remember seeing mentioned on here in the past, is that Valerie Storie stated that the gunman said that he'd done CT and 'done the lot'. She didn't know what he meant by this, but remembered his saying such. CT, as we know, means Corrective Training, and Hanratty had recently been sentenced to 3 years CT. 'Done the lot' in criminal
Hi Graham.
You really believe after all the excessive trauma to Stories body and mind, and always bearing in mind we only heard a very small portion of everything that was supposedly discussed, two days later while giving a full statement to Acott, she remembered the initials CT? Can’t you see the entire case positively reeks of ‘Patsy’.

[moste]

There are many,many,incidences of anomalies ,oddities, whatever we want to call them, that point in the direction of a’ frame-up’.
I sometimes am tempted to be suspicious of Sherards handling of the defence . And not exposing the true relationship of the two lovers is one of those Alf.