A6 Rebooted

[Observer]

There are some photos here: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/ha...l?blackwhite=1 and probably more on Alamy if you have a look round. Woffinden's book is pretty thin on photos, Foot's is much better. There are probably still photos on this Forum going way back. A poster called Steve put on a whole lot of quality photos of many of the places in the case, but I don't know if they're still available.

I began to read Alan Razen's book, but found it unconvincing and also badly written. There is also 'Shadows Of Deadman's Hill' by Leonard Miller, which gets the Hanratty supporters' blood boiling (!), but as only 1000 copies were printed (by Zoylus) it's now hard to get, but you may be lucky on the net. To counter this, former poster Natalie Severn, very much a Hanratty supporter, wrote a couple of pamphlets, but I don't know if these are still available. Her real name is Norma Buddle and she has an internet blog.

Graham

You're correct regarding Miller's book getting Hanraty supporters blood boiling I bought a copy at a car boot fair would you believe. I am surprised to find only one available on the internet at 88 quid!

I visited all the sites associated with the case in 07, and took a lot of photos.

Observer

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’m 187 pages in and I have to say there appear to me to be significant doubts (at least to a complete novice like myself.) It’s hard to square Valerie Storie’s absolute confidence in court that she had no doubt that she could identify Hanratty correctly when she’d taken a full 20 minutes at the identity parade. And then she appeared to tell John Kerr (who actually wrote it down) that her assailant had ‘light fair hair,’ when Hanratty’s hair was black at the time. Also she apparently said ‘medium brown’ at the Magistrates. It’s also strange that a man who regularly stole cars would ask about the gears on a very normal car?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Curiouser and curiouser.

Has there been any suggestions of police corruption or dishonesty in this case?

Its rather strange that not only did Kerr’s written description disappear but the police claimed not to be able to find an officer who had received the piece of paper. This implies of course that Kerr was mistaken or lying. Surely it’s unlikely that he could have been mistaken on this and what reason would he have to lie? Could his description have been seen as ‘inconvenient?’

[Alfie]

... she appeared to tell John Kerr (who actually wrote it down) that her assailant had ‘light fair hair,’ when Hanratty’s hair was black at the time. Also she apparently said ‘medium brown’ at the Magistrates.:

The first description issued by police - just hours after Valerie was found - was of a man with "dark brown" hair. This could only have come from her. So it seems more likely to me at least that Kerr's hearing or recollection was at fault. He did get Valerie's name wrong initially after all, mistakenly thinking it was Mary.

[Spitfire]

I’m 187 pages in and I have to say there appear to me to be significant doubts (at least to a complete novice like myself.) It’s hard to square Valerie Storie’s absolute confidence in court that she had no doubt that she could identify Hanratty correctly when she’d taken a full 20 minutes at the identity parade. And then she appeared to tell John Kerr (who actually wrote it down) that her assailant had ‘light fair hair,’ when Hanratty’s hair was black at the time. Also she apparently said ‘medium brown’ at the Magistrates. It’s also strange that a man who regularly stole cars would ask about the gears on a very normal car?

The undoubted weakness of the identification evidence against Hanratty was strengthened by Hanratty giving two alibis which, in the eyes of the jury, proved to be false.

As to Hanratty's driving ability, Woff deals with his motoring criminal record at pp 86-7 (1999 Pan edition). Jim was "taught" to drive by Bill from Bloxwich sometime between February and Julyin 1957.

Jim and Bill stole a Morris Oxford car which they drove to Brighton. The impression that Woff gives is that Jim drove and Bill was the passenger, but I have my doubts. Jim leaves Bill and the car, and steals a Humber Hawk. Jim gets caught. One reason he might have got caught was due to his inability to pass himself off as a bona fide motorist who had passed a driving test. We don't know.

The Brighton/Humber Hawk debacle (together with one offence of TWOC taken into consideration, was this the Morris Oxford theft?) led to a spell in jail of 4 months from July 1957.

Jim was back in the dock in March 1958 having been caught taking two cars without the owners' consent and he asked for a further offence to be taken into consideration. For these offences Jim was sentenced to, and served, three years in prison.

From his release from Strangeways at the end of March 1961 down until 22 August 1961 there was no evidence that Jim stole or drove any motor vehicle. All his journeys were by public transport, taxis or thumbing lifts.

So when Jim got behind the wheel of the Morris Minor in the early hours of Wednesday 23 August 1961, it is quite possible that he had not driven any motor vehicle for well over three years and had never driven a Morris Minor and had only ever driven three or four cars. Combine that with the lack of proper driving tuition (apologies to Bill of Bloxwich), the lack of sleep, the emotional strain or murdering a man and raping a woman and Jim's undoubted learning disabilities, I do not find it strange that Jim made such a hash of driving the Morris Minor away from Deadman's Hill.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The first description issued by police - just hours after Valerie was found - was of a man with "dark brown" hair. This could only have come from her. So it seems more likely to me at least that Kerr's hearing or recollection was at fault. He did get Valerie's name wrong initially after all, mistakenly thinking it was Mary.

Thanks for that Alfie

The reason that I mentioned corruption was because of the way that Kerr’s notes, written on the back of a form, disappeared with Acott saying that they hadn’t even been able to locate an officer that took the piece of paper from Kerr in the first place. Obviously this hints that they were never handed over in the first place. Then the paper reappeared but Kerr reckoned that it wasn’t his handwriting. This seems fishy of course but I was wondering how this might be explained?

[Herlock Sholmes]

The undoubted weakness of the identification evidence against Hanratty was strengthened by Hanratty giving two alibis which, in the eyes of the jury, proved to be false.

As to Hanratty's driving ability, Woff deals with his motoring criminal record at pp 86-7 (1999 Pan edition). Jim was "taught" to drive by Bill from Bloxwich sometime between February and Julyin 1957.

Jim and Bill stole a Morris Oxford car which they drove to Brighton. The impression that Woff gives is that Jim drove and Bill was the passenger, but I have my doubts. Jim leaves Bill and the car, and steals a Humber Hawk. Jim gets caught. One reason he might have got caught was due to his inability to pass himself off as a bona fide motorist who had passed a driving test. We don't know.

The Brighton/Humber Hawk debacle (together with one offence of TWOC taken into consideration, was this the Morris Oxford theft?) led to a spell in jail of 4 months from July 1957.

Jim was back in the dock in March 1958 having been caught taking two cars without the owners' consent and he asked for a further offence to be taken into consideration. For these offences Jim was sentenced to, and served, three years in prison.

From his release from Strangeways at the end of March 1961 down until 22 August 1961 there was no evidence that Jim stole or drove any motor vehicle. All his journeys were by public transport, taxis or thumbing lifts.

So when Jim got behind the wheel of the Morris Minor in the early hours of Wednesday 23 August 1961, it is quite possible that he had not driven any motor vehicle for well over three years and had never driven a Morris Minor and had only ever driven three or four cars. Combine that with the lack of proper driving tuition (apologies to Bill of Bloxwich), the lack of sleep, the emotional strain or murdering a man and raping a woman and Jim's undoubted learning disabilities, I do not find it strange that Jim made such a hash of driving the Morris Minor away from Deadman's Hill.

Thanks for that Spitfire

Im from the West Midlands and did once know someone called Bill who lived in Bloxwich but I think that the age of three would have been a bit too young to have been giving JH driving lessons.

I take your points of course but would there be any reason for Hanratty to have given up taking and driving cars? He was after all an ‘habitual criminal’ (to borrow a phrase from Porridge) and car theft was one of his ‘skills.’ The two points that I’d raise are 1) even if JH had a ‘driving gap’ between March and August (and isn’t it possible that he’d still stolen cars but not been caught?) does it necessarily mean that his driving would have been impaired? I don’t know. And 2) Doesn’t the fact that he bought a Sunbeam Alpine on September 20th (a month after the murder) show that he was still a competent driver?

I’m that rare creature, a non-driver, so my opinions on driving skills are worth next to nothing. Did gears and the ways that cars worked in those days vary much from car to car? I suppose that, on the one hand, a Morris Minor was a common car but then again would it have been the kind of car that Hanratty would have targetted?

[Graham]

Hanratty's supporters have always, somewhat naturally, claimed that as he was a 'car thief' (sic) and that he had top-notch driving-skills sufficient to give Stirling Moss a run for his money. He would not, they claim, have any problem driving a 'simple car' like a Morris Minor; but Peter Alphon would, as he wasn't a driver at all. I have never accepted this. When I was much younger I drove a 1952 side-valve Minor for a while, and getting first gear was an extremely hit-and-miss affair.The clutch was also sharp, and quite often took me by surprise, stalling the engine.

As Spitfire rightly points out, JH had not long come out of prison after serving three years ('The Lot'?) for stealing cars. Not much is known about what he got up to between leaving jail and showing up in a cornfield, and it's possible he may have twocked a car or two, but I don't think so. His main line of business was burgling wealthy houses and fencing what he stole. And it seems he made a decent living out of this. Also, I believe Woffo reported that while he was in Maidstone jail he used to boast to fellow inmates about the big Yank car he'd get when he got out, and was ridiculed by them. Also, after the murder, he bought himself a Sunbeam Alpine and damaged it, and Carole France stated that his driving was fairly awful. Then there was the hired car he all but wrecked in Ireland. An accomplished driver? Never.

By the way, HS, I live not far from Bloxwich, and as far as driving is concerned it's a place I keep away from during peak periods...

Graham

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hanratty's supporters have always, somewhat naturally, claimed that as he was a 'car thief' (sic) and that he had top-notch driving-skills sufficient to give Stirling Moss a run for his money. He would not, they claim, have any problem driving a 'simple car' like a Morris Minor; but Peter Alphon would, as he wasn't a driver at all. I have never accepted this. When I was much younger I drove a 1952 side-valve Minor for a while, and getting first gear was an extremely hit-and-miss affair.The clutch was also sharp, and quite often took me by surprise, stalling the engine.

As Spitfire rightly points out, JH had not long come out of prison after serving three years ('The Lot'?) for stealing cars. Not much is known about what he got up to between leaving jail and showing up in a cornfield, and it's possible he may have twocked a car or two, but I don't think so. His main line of business was burgling wealthy houses and fencing what he stole. And it seems he made a decent living out of this. Also, I believe Woffo reported that while he was in Maidstone jail he used to boast to fellow inmates about the big Yank car he'd get when he got out, and was ridiculed by them. Also, after the murder, he bought himself a Sunbeam Alpine and damaged it, and Carole France stated that his driving was fairly awful. Then there was the hired car he all but wrecked in Ireland. An accomplished driver? Never.

By the way, HS, I live not far from Bloxwich, and as far as driving is concerned it's a place I keep away from during peak periods...

Graham

Hi Graham,

Thanks for the info. I haven’t been to Bloxwich for years. I remember drinking in quite a nice pub a couple of times but can’t remember the name of it.

Is Roy Langdale’s testimony given much credence these days? I’m wondering if the full extent of the crime was known at the time of Hanratty’s ‘’confession?’’ I only ask this because I’m wondering if Hanratty, who’d been in prison before and would have been aware of prisoners attitudes toward sexual offenders, would have admitted to being involved in a rape? Such an admission might have gotten him a beating or two whilst inside?

[cobalt]

Hanratty appears to have been a hashy driver, not an incompetent, one. He would have known how to change gears, at the least.

The attempts to equate the driving skills of Hanratty with those of Alphon, who simply could not drive at all, are desperate attempts to square the circle of the A6 murder. To hang an innocent man is not a pleasant thought.

[Spitfire]

I take your points of course but would there be any reason for Hanratty to have given up taking and driving cars? He was after all an ‘habitual criminal’ (to borrow a phrase from Porridge) and car theft was one of his ‘skills.’ The two points that I’d raise are 1) even if JH had a ‘driving gap’ between March and August (and isn't it possible that he'd still stolen cars but not been caught?) does it necessarily mean that his driving would have been impaired? I don’t know. And 2) Doesn’t the fact that he bought a Sunbeam Alpine on September 20th (a month after the murder) show that he was still a competent driver?

If Jim had been stealing cars in this period and had not been caught, then he really ought to have given evidence to that effect. Admittedly, if acquitted of murder then the theft/TWOCing to which he admitted would attract further custodial punishment. However, as he was admitting to stealing the Jag from Portland Street when he realised he was a wanted man and went on the run, there would be little to be lost and much to be gained by admitting offences before August 1961. That Jim did not give this evidence indicates that it did not happen.

[Alfie]

From his release from Strangeways at the end of March 1961 down until 22 August 1961 there was no evidence that Jim stole or drove any motor vehicle. All his journeys were by public transport, taxis or thumbing lifts.

On July 22nd Jim and a friend, Terry, stole a black Ford Consul in Hendon and drove it to Shrewsbury, where they attracted the interest of a couple of bobbies and Jim absconded, leaving his mate to face the music. The sources don't make clear who did the driving.

As for Jim's driving ability, the testimonials given by those whom he chauffeured at one time or another largely portray him as a rather reckless and unskilled driver. It's also highly likely that he'd never been behind wheel of a Morris Minor before the night of the murder so would have needed the controls explained to him.

[Graham]

HS, we used to go to a rather decent pub in Bloxwich, but it's long gone. There's another quite well-known pub called The Sir Robert Peel I visited a couple of times, but haven't been for years. I wonder if 'Bill from Bloxwich' was ever identified.

The reason for JH's trip to Ireland was to get a driving-licence, as apparently you could some form of licence there without taking a test - and importantly this licence was acceptable in the UK. Which rather suggests to me that he was perfectly aware that his crap driving-skills would not permit him to pass a UK driving-test. And we all know what happened when he hired a car in Dublin - he pranged it, and simply walked away.

I could do with a serious re-read of my A6 books, which I haven't done for a long time, hence the Ford Consul twoc slipping my mind.



Graham

[Herlock Sholmes]

HS, we used to go to a rather decent pub in Bloxwich, but it's long gone. There's another quite well-known pub called The Sir Robert Peel I visited a couple of times, but haven't been for years. I wonder if 'Bill from Bloxwich' was ever identified.

The reason for JH's trip to Ireland was to get a driving-licence, as apparently you could some form of licence there without taking a test - and importantly this licence was acceptable in the UK. Which rather suggests to me that he was perfectly aware that his crap driving-skills would not permit him to pass a UK driving-test. And we all know what happened when he hired a car in Dublin - he pranged it, and simply walked away.

I could do with a serious re-read of my A6 books, which I haven't done for a long time, hence the Ford Consul twoc slipping my mind.



Graham

I recall passing the Sir Robert Peel a few times but never went in. It’s still there apparently.

https://www.google.com/search?q=the+sir+robert+peel+pub+bloxwich&safe=strict&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&prmd=minv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiih5WDiPjgAhWbVRUIHXRYAl4Q_AUoAnoECBYQAg&biw=1024&bih=1257#imgrc=S4OA9RqkZhm2yM

Yes I thought it was a bit strange how easily he’d acquired a driving licence in Ireland and it does tend to point toward the fact that he might have felt that he’d not have been confident in his ability to have passed his test in England.

Graham, if you get chance could you post me a list of books on the case as I’m only coming up with Foot and Razen apart from the Woffinden book which I’m 250 pages into at the moment.

[moste]

Cass quote :Why could he not have taken the gun on impulse, looking for an opportunity to take it for a spin and try it out for size, not foreseeing the enormity of where it would lead, being 'weak academically' and an 'impulsive character'......Because there is no money in it !