A6 Rebooted

[Graham]

Or you could take the view, Cobalt, that Mr Lee's claimed sighting in Matlock was just cobblers. As far as I'm aware, not even the ever-sceptical Woffo seriously suggested that the car's odometer had been tampered with, and had it not been, then a sighting in Matlock at any time would have been impossible. I can't recall the precise details, but I feel sure that Mr Lee claimed to have seen and recognised the number-plate 847 BHN at a time before the car's registration number had been broadcast on radio news. Sorry, but I simply cannot buy Mr Lee's claimed sighting.

A more likely sighting of the Morris was that claimed by milkman Charles Drayton, who says he saw the car in Bedford at 5.25 am as it jumped the red lights at the junction of Ampthill Road and St Johns Street. Mr Drayton says he had to brake sharply to avoid a collision. He says he was able to memorise the car's number by means of what seems to me to be somewhat convoluted mnemonics, but whatever - he did seemingly get the number right. The scene of this near-accident was only four miles away from Deadman's Hill. Valerie says that the car left the crime-scene at around 3.30am by her reckoning, and she also says that it headed south. However, the car was facing south during the crime, so the driver could have driven down to the southern end of the lay-by where John Kerr was stationed, and then turned left and north onto the A6, un-noticed by the semi-conscious Valerie. So if Mr Drayton did see the car when he said he did, where had it been in the two hours since it left Deadman's Hill?

Note: Mr Drayton makes no mention of a green bobble-hat being worn by the driver of the Morris he had a near-accident with. Further note: Hanratty was a notoriously sharp dresser with his sleek Italian suits and hand-made shoes; Valerie says he was 'immaculately dressed' when he got into the car. I would suggest that even Hanratty would have figured out that a dark Italian-cut suit topped with a woolen bobble-hat might just make him stand out a little. If there really is a colour photo of the car's boot, in which this legendary bobble-hat can be seen, I would love to see it. Otherwise I cannot believe that the hat existed, and the driver Mr Lee saw was not Hanratty and the car in which he saw the bobble-hatted driver was not the Morris.

Another point which has been discussed almost ad nauseam is the time at which the Morris was abandoned in Avondale Crescent. Here, I tend to agree with Woffo who says it was left there shortly before it was spotted by Mr Madwar at around 6.45pm. In which case the evidence given by Skillett and Trower cannot be valid. A car whose description and number had been broadcast all day on radio and TV news, and which was parked badly and also damaged, could hardly, in my opinion, have remained un-noticed in a busy road for around 12 hours.

Graham

[NickB]

John Kerr did not come on duty until 6am.

There is no reason to disbelieve Valerie when she said the car proceeded southward on the A6. She would have known this by the car noise fading away. If it had gone to end of the layby and turned left on the A6 she would have seen or heard it come back past her. So she knew it did not go northward.

Also John Smith, who was doing an overnight traffic census half a mile south of Silsoe on the A6, saw a car at about the right time - that he thought was a Morris Minor - travelling south at speed.

If Woffinden believes the car was abandoned in the evening he needs to explain how this tallies with his account of how Alphon parked it in the morning and then proceeded to the Vienna.

[cobalt]

Graham,

Well, the Court of Appeal believed the hat existed. I am sure they would have been very quick to dismiss an urban myth if that formed part of the appeal.

The Court was not very forthcoming about the photograph of the hat and as has been pointed out, did not state its colour. Presumably any photo will be black and white, although it is possible to estimate colour quite accurately. The chances of Mr. Lee describing a hat which just happened to be found in the boot of the car are quite slim, but the CofA did not seem interested in exploring this area.

Regarding discrepancies in mileage, the point being made was not about resetting the odometer but simply the possibility that Gregsten may have got his figures wrong.

I don't disagree about Hanratty's dress sense, which is why the possibility of Lee's sighting being genuine is awkward for those who believe in his guilt.

[Alfie]

Well, the Court of Appeal believed the hat existed. I am sure they would have been very quick to dismiss an urban myth if that formed part of the appeal.

The Court was not very forthcoming about the photograph of the hat and as has been pointed out, did not state its colour.

The CofA didn't mention a photograph, which leaves me wondering from what source it would have been retailing the information about the hat - the CCRC?

[Graham]

NickB,

yes, I think the probability is that Hanratty drove off southwards. But he did have relatives in Bedford, and it occurred to me a long time ago that in what must have been his fragile mental state after the crime he may well have headed towards Bedford, maybe thinking that they - his relatives - would give him an alibi. Pure speculation on my part.

I think Woffinden in truth had a hard time fitting Alphon's claimed movements into the time-scale of the crime, and was aware of it.

Cobalt, Alfie,

With regard to the bobble hat, don't forget that the list of the car's contents, as posted on here some time ago by Natalie, mentioned no bobble hat.

Graham

[NickB]

Just a thought, but might the pom pom hat have been in Gregsten's bag of washing?

The inventory list Natalie posted does not appear to include these items.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=244987#post244987

[Graham]

Just a thought, but might the pom pom hat have been in Gregsten's bag of washing?

The inventory list Natalie posted does not appear to include these items.
http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...987#post244987

Good thinking, Nick. Gregsten strikes me as being a far more likely wearer of such head-gear than Hanratty. However, in the total absence of any such hat, Mr Lee's statement must I think be questionable. Unless it was Hanratty that he saw, and that Hanratty got rid of the hat en route to London. Who knows?

I would guess that the bag of washing, the duffel bag, etc., were eventually passed on to Gregsten's nearest of kin.

Graham

[moste]

Just a thought, but might the pom pom hat have been in Gregsten's bag of washing?

The inventory list Natalie posted does not appear to include these items.
http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...987#post244987

I wonder what item '34' is alluding to : Bullet from bank.

[moste]

Item '5' Blood clot. as against 'blood sample', I mean to say I thought according to Storie there was large quantities of blood.

[Graham]

I wonder what item '34' is alluding to : Bullet from bank.

I would say the bank adjacent to the lay-by.

Graham

[moste]

Bobble Hats

Just browsing through a 1950s Daily Express sponsored National car rally event, and the journalist running through the hundred and fifty odd entrants and their motors , makes mention of a few of the drivers and co-pilots attire, (just to keep his run down of all competitors from becoming boring I suspect) and it seams the woolen, colourful, bobble hats were quite the norm at these events.

[moste]

I would say the bank adjacent to the lay-by.

Graham

quite right as in 'embankment'

There was quite a rise in the edge of the laneway and it would appear also a thicket of bushes and shrubbery that the police had to have scythed,bullet discovered by use of metal detectors. Only one bullet though from those that missed
I wonder what kind of a view a passing motorist would have had from someone flat on their back waving a petticoat? very sad!

[Alfie]

Lennon-backed film: Did Britain Murder Hanratty?

Watched this over the weekend and was struck by how inaccurate and how misleading some of the claims made during it were (most made at a public meeting in Watford, Jan 1, 1969; see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGl9tzMNtpE):

"... many people at the time were very disturbed [by Hanratty's death sentence], and a large number of Members of Parliament urged the Home Secretary to recommend clemency." (this from the man introducing the A6 committee to the audience. Anybody know who he was?)

“He [JH] went to prison, I believe it was three times, for car thieving.” All the time it was for stealing cars? “Stealing cars, yes.” (James Hanratty, Sr)

"... we’ve been trying for a long long time to find out who this fellow is [who was wrongly identified by Storie]. We don’t know who he is. There’s a rumour that he’s a Spanish sailor. Lucky for him that he’s a Spanish sailor, because if he wasn’t a Spanish sailor, and if he hadn’t got an alibi, if he couldn’t remember where he was a month ago, he’d probably have been charged with the murder, he’d probably have been hung." (Paul Foot)

“Hanratty was the only cockney on the parade ..." (Jean Justice)

"The other fellow [Blackhall] says, ‘Definitely wasn’t Hanratty.’" (Foot)

"Another fellow going to work, bit of a fly boy, fellow called John Trower down in the East End. He’s, ah, easy with the police, you know, likes to keep in with the police, that kind of thing. ... he looks around, a car shoots by at 30 miles per hour. Now I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to identify a driver of a car going past you at 30 miles per hour at seven o’clock in the morning, and if you’ve tried it, well, it’s extremely difficult." (Foot; Trower testified at trial that the car was doing only 20mph)

Hanratty "wandered around looking for Tarlton or Talbot Road, where a previous prisoner friend of Hanratty was believed to live." (Foot; JH told Kleinman he was looking for Talbot or Carlton Road)

"Well, they [the police] come to a shop called Cowley’s, and there’s a man there, he says ‘Well, as a matter of fact I wasn’t here on that day, my, ah, sister, my mother, my mother-in-law was looking after the shop at the time. Perhaps you’d better go and see her.’ So they go and find the mother-in-law, who’s a very respectable lady called Mrs Dinwoodie." (Foot)

"Now they gave Mrs Dinwoodie a photograph of Hanratty and said, ‘Is this the man?’ And she said, ‘Certainly, that’s the man.’ And she signed on the back: ‘This is the man who came into my shop.’ The little girl, Barbara Ford there, they said, ‘Do you think that’s the man?’ She said, ‘Yes, that’s the man.’ Signed on the back." (Foot; in fact, Barbara Ford was not interviewed until Nov 2; She was shown some photographs but could not recognise any of them.)

"... everyone in the area knew that Gregsten and Valerie Storie used to go to that cornfield in that car. Night after night, night after night." (Foot)

The other striking thing for me was Foot's dogmatic, hectoring style of speaking. He seemed quite the opposite of the cool, dispassionate author of 'Who Killed Hanratty?'

[moste]

Watched this over the weekend and was struck by how inaccurate and how misleading some of the claims made during it were (most made at a public meeting in Watford, Jan 1, 1969; see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGl9tzMNtpE):

"... many people at the time were very disturbed [by Hanratty's death sentence], and a large number of Members of Parliament urged the Home Secretary to recommend clemency." (this from the man introducing the A6 committee to the audience. Anybody know who he was?)

“He [JH] went to prison, I believe it was three times, for car thieving.” All the time it was for stealing cars? “Stealing cars, yes.” (James Hanratty, Sr)

"... we’ve been trying for a long long time to find out who this fellow is [who was wrongly identified by Storie]. We don’t know who he is. There’s a rumour that he’s a Spanish sailor. Lucky for him that he’s a Spanish sailor, because if he wasn’t a Spanish sailor, and if he hadn’t got an alibi, if he couldn’t remember where he was a month ago, he’d probably have been charged with the murder, he’d probably have been hung." (Paul Foot)

“Hanratty was the only cockney on the parade ..." (Jean Justice)

"The other fellow [Blackhall] says, ‘Definitely wasn’t Hanratty.’" (Foot)

"Another fellow going to work, bit of a fly boy, fellow called John Trower down in the East End. He’s, ah, easy with the police, you know, likes to keep in with the police, that kind of thing. ... he looks around, a car shoots by at 30 miles per hour. Now I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to identify a driver of a car going past you at 30 miles per hour at seven o’clock in the morning, and if you’ve tried it, well, it’s extremely difficult." (Foot; Trower testified at trial that the car was doing only 20mph)

Hanratty "wandered around looking for Tarlton or Talbot Road, where a previous prisoner friend of Hanratty was believed to live." (Foot; JH told Kleinman he was looking for Talbot or Carlton Road)

"Well, they [the police] come to a shop called Cowley’s, and there’s a man there, he says ‘Well, as a matter of fact I wasn’t here on that day, my, ah, sister, my mother, my mother-in-law was looking after the shop at the time. Perhaps you’d better go and see her.’ So they go and find the mother-in-law, who’s a very respectable lady called Mrs Dinwoodie." (Foot)

"Now they gave Mrs Dinwoodie a photograph of Hanratty and said, ‘Is this the man?’ And she said, ‘Certainly, that’s the man.’ And she signed on the back: ‘This is the man who came into my shop.’ The little girl, Barbara Ford there, they said, ‘Do you think that’s the man?’ She said, ‘Yes, that’s the man.’ Signed on the back." (Foot; in fact, Barbara Ford was not interviewed until Nov 2; She was shown some photographs but could not recognise any of them.)

"... everyone in the area knew that Gregsten and Valerie Storie used to go to that cornfield in that car. Night after night, night after night." (Foot)

The other striking thing for me was Foot's dogmatic, hectoring style of speaking. He seemed quite the opposite of the cool, dispassionate author of 'Who Killed Hanratty?'

Wow! I always said Hanratty was innocent

[NickB]

Foot related how he met Justice and Fox at the reburial wake and was immediately convinced by them. In 1997 he wrote: “Since that time I have been, as I still am, quite certain that Hanratty was in Rhyl when the couple were shot near Bedford 250 miles away.” Having thus decided upon the innocence of Jim, whom he described as “a young worker from south London”, Foot then saw his mission to persuade others.

However ... I admit to having fond memories of his articles and appearances on such programmes as Any Questions, when his firm beliefs were delivered with good quality humour. And on the delusional scale he is no match for Woffinden. In that same 1997 article (a review of Woffinden’s book) Foot described his own book and then wrote:

“Bob Woffinden, by contrast, boldly sets out a scenario which names Alphon as the murderer and explains the conspiracy which led him to the couple in the car, tracing his steps exactly, both in the run-up to the crime and the aftermath. The scenario is tempting, but far from conclusive.”

When Foot died, Michael Hanratty described how he had comforted him when Hanratty senior was dying: “He sat with me for a week, every evening, from work, till he died.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9M_J7qZRgE

Foot’s gravestone, opposite Karl Marx’s memorial in Highgate contains a quote from Shelley’s poem, The Mask of Anarchy.

https://ethicalmartini.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/dscn0914.jpg