A6 Rebooted

[cobalt]

Regarding Trower's evidence, as reported here, could anyone clarify his timings?
He says that he picked up Hogan and 'later' they saw loads of police swarming around the car. From the article it could be read that that the police arrived in the morning, just after his 'sighting; but does Trower's 'later' refer to the early evening when they were returning home?

[NickB]

Early evening. I believe he made an arrangement with the police then to make a statement the following morning.

[Spitfire]

Thanks Nick for the Sunday Times articles which I had not seen before.

It puts the France suicide into perspective. If we think that suicide is an irrational act, then it is pointless to rationalise it but there were definitely other things going on in Dixie's life which might have led him to take his own life.

As to Hanratty's driving, I would be interested to know if anyone ever saw James Hanratty behind the wheel of a car after he left prison in March 1961 and before the abduction at Dorney Reach on 22 August 1961. That he was a bad driver in September 1961 is pretty well evidenced, but was he a complete or almost complete novice at driving in the previous August? As no evidence was called on this point, I assume that no one (including Hanratty hisself) could give such evidence.

Paul Foot has described Hanratty as an accomplished car thief and expert driver. This was definitely not the case.

As to the timings of the Avondale sighting; it seems that Skillett saw a grey Morris Minor which he and Blackhall subsequently identified as 847 BHN, and which Skillett eventually identified Hanratty as the driver. Skillett said that his car's clock said 7.00 am. Trower settled on 7.08 am as the time when he saw the grey car enter Avondale Crescent from Redbridge Lane East. Hogan says that he saw a fawn or cream Morris Minor enter Avondale Crescent before Trower, who was 20 minutes late, arrived.

On the 1966 Panorama programme, Hogan said he was at the door of his flat at 6.45 am when the Morris 1000 (which had now acquired a grey colour) turned into Avondale Crescent.

The Panorama team reconstructed a Morris Minor driving along Redbridge Lane East and turning into Avondale Crescent with the camera at or near Hogan's door. They also had Trower saying the driver was definitely Hanratty, and Hogan saying it was definitely not him. The reconstruction demonstrated the difficulty of making an identification, but that did not seem to deter either of the witnesses from making such identification.

[Sherlock Houses]

The amazing James Trower............

Regarding Trower's evidence, as reported here, could anyone clarify his timings?
He says that he picked up Hogan and 'later' they saw loads of police swarming around the car. From the article it could be read that that the police arrived in the morning, just after his 'sighting; but does Trower's 'later' refer to the early evening when they were returning home?

Just to clarify matters re. James Trower's 'sighting' it is very significant that he had forgotten all about it for a full 24 hours, indicative of just how trivial and commonplace an everyday occurence like this [on British roads] was and still is. He didn't make his statement until the evening of August 24th, a day and a half after his 'sighting' .The following extract from Michael Sherrard's cross-examination of Trower at Bedford is very revealing.....

MS: "Did you notice anything about the number plate ?"
JT: "No."
MS: "So what it comes to is that you really had just a glimpse of the man as he passed ?"
JT: "I would say about three seconds."
MS: "Three seconds in all. The car is moving all the time ?"
JT: "Yes."
MS: "And your car is in between you ?"
JT: "Yes."
MS: "Then the incident goes out of your mind, certainly for 24 hours ?"
JT: "I did not know anything about it."
MS: "When the police first mentioned it to you, it did not mean anything to you ?"
JT: "It did not dawn on me at all."
MS: "Then Paddy Hogan said something and you go and see the police again ?"
JT: "Yes."
MS: "What it really comes to, as I understand it, is that, having seen somebody for a couple of seconds in those circumstances, which I suggest were not very clear and good, you can then six weeks later just go up to somebody in a second and say, 'That is the man' ?"
JT: "Yes."



Speaks absolute volumes on behalf of Trower doesn't it ?

[j.kettle1]

And if the car was doing 30mph for example, then in those three seconds it would have travelled 44 yards.

[Sherlock Houses]

The Hepworth suit, a crucial question.....

On July 8th 1961 James Hanratty, accompanied by his brother Michael, went to Hepworth's Tailors in Burnt Oak to be measured for a bespoke suit. A bespoke suit differs from a made to measure one in that is individually crafted to a customer's own personal specifications and cut from a pattern drafted from scratch.

He collected the suit 6 weeks later on August 18th and started wearing it from that point onwards.

If the trousers to that Hepworth suit had a buttoned fly as opposed to a zipped fly then that eliminates, at one stroke, James Hanratty from being the A6 murderer.

Why ?? you might well ask.

Because Valerie Storie's own testimony at the Bedford trial was that the murderer..."undid the zip of the fly of his trousers, pushed me back into a half-lying, half-sitting position, leaning against the bag of washing, and without removing any more of his clothing he raped me."

[Spitfire]

A bespoke suit differs from a made to measure one in that is individually crafted to a customer's own personal specifications and cut from a pattern drafted from scratch.

A bespoke suit is made to measure.

[GUT]

On July 8th 1961 James Hanratty, accompanied by his brother Michael, went to Hepworth's Tailors in Burnt Oak to be measured for a bespoke suit. A bespoke suit differs from a made to measure one in that is individually crafted to a customer's own personal specifications and cut from a pattern drafted from scratch.

He collected the suit 6 weeks later on August 18th and started wearing it from that point onwards.

If the trousers to that Hepworth suit had a buttoned fly as opposed to a zipped fly then that eliminates, at one stroke, James Hanratty from being the A6 murderer.

Why ?? you might well ask.

Because Valerie Storie's own testimony at the Bedford trial was that the murderer..."undid the zip of the fly of his trousers, pushed me back into a half-lying, half-sitting position, leaning against the bag of washing, and without removing any more of his clothing he raped me."

Two points

1. Is there even the slightest evidence that the suit had buttons not a zip

2. Where is the evidence that that was the only suit he owned.

[NickB]

1. No, the trousers were exhibits at court.

2. France testified that Hanratty had several suits.

[Sherlock Houses]

A bespoke suit is made to measure.

Oops and here's silly old me googling the term and thinking there was a discernable difference between a bespoke suit and the usual made to measure suit.

I must try harder...................

[Sherlock Houses]

Two points

1. Is there even the slightest evidence that the suit had buttons not a zip

2. Where is the evidence that that was the only suit he owned.

Two replies..

1. There is no reference [at least none I can find anywhere] as to whether the trousers were buttoned or zipped. My guess is that back in 1961 it was more common for suits [especially individually designed ones] to have buttoned flies. Far safer [and classier] than zipped flies.

2. You need to re-read my post more carefully as i never implied that Hanratty had only one suit. He also had a green suit which he took to Burtols on the morning of August 21st to be cleaned and altered. It is widely understood and accepted that Hanratty was wearing the Hepworth suit during the week of the murder.

[Spitfire]

Oops and here's silly old me googling the term and thinking there was a discernable difference between a bespoke suit and the usual made to measure suit.

I must try harder...................

That's ok.

I am pretty certain that the Hepworth's suit would have been made to measure rather than fully bespoke in the traditional Savile Row meaning of the term, in any event buttons or zips would have been an option.

The trousers to the suit were produced in court as an exhibit and as the zip point was not taken by the ever alert Mr Sherrard, one has to assume now that there is nothing in the point.

[Sherlock Houses]

The trousers to the suit were produced in court as an exhibit and as the zip point was not taken by the ever alert Mr Sherrard one has to assume now that there is nothing in the point.

Perhaps you can enlighten us all by telling us the exhibit number of the Hepworth trousers ??

Rather strange and remiss of 'The ever alert Mr Sherrard' [as you call him] not to insist on Michael Clark, or even a photo of him, making an appearance at the trial for comparison purposes with Hanratty.

[Spitfire]

Perhaps you can enlighten us all by telling us the exhibit number of the Hepworth trousers ??

I would not presume to be enlightening everyone, as some may already know, but I believe that the trousers in question became Exhibit 43 at the trial.

[NickB]

Moreover the tailor’s assistant from Hepworth’s who served Hanratty, William Clapp, gave evidence on 25-Jan-62 and was asked to identify the trousers.