A6 Rebooted

[caz]

Why would France,a man he didnt know,go and see Ewer to say how sorry he was for Gregstens death.Apparently France had to be consoled by Ewer as he was so agitated ,and this, several months after the murder,very odd! Ewer actually admitted saying to France "justice has been done,YOU HAVE NOTHING TO REPROACH YOURSELF FOR" what was he reproaching himself about?( I actually added in pencil at the bottom of page 383."How would Ewer know France had anything to reproach himself for?) very strange! Obviously these two people knew each other,yet, Ewer said he had only met France that one time.

Well clearly, moste, Ewer is claiming to believe Hanratty alone was responsible for the A6 murder and rape ("justice has been done") and is therefore saying that France has nothing to reproach himself for. At worst, France may have unwittingly supplied Hanratty with the murder weapon and be feeling terrible about that. At best, he may be beating himself up for telling the police about Hanratty's hiding place on the bus. In between those two extremes, France may have advised Hanratty shortly after the event to go north sharpish and get himself a decent alibi. How much help and its exact nature would affect how badly France was reproaching himself. If he didn't know or suspect what Hanratty had been up to at that point, he soon found out why the police were after him. How much of a shock that was is anyone's guess.

Love,

Caz
X

[Natalie Severn]

“In prison he’d given me his address as Talbot or Carlton Road.”

This ties in with the Appeal (section 54) which says Kleinman submitted a written statement that the road names Hanratty said he asked for were Carlton and Talbot.

However Mrs D always said that the visitor asked only for Tarleton Road. Hanratty seems to have picked this up and later added ‘Tarleton’ to the road names he said he had been looking for.

Over the years the myth has grown that the road names in both accounts were identical. In 2002 Foot claimed:
Hanratty said he asked for: “Tarleton or Carlton Road”
Mrs D said her visitor asked for: “Tarleton or Carlton Road”

Nick ,this answers the confusion over the names of the road he was looking for. Mrs Dunwoody appears to have had difficulty hearing what Hanratty was saying- did she perhaps in her late 60's need a hearing aid?But she certainly recognised Hanratty in court as being the same that she had been into her sweetshop.It may be worth noting here that Mrs Dunwoody never wavered that the man she saw in court was the man she had seen in her sweetshop between 4 and 5pm on 21st or 22nd---she gave two dates remember -her first being 22nd. However she did explain she had difficulty understanding his accent.Maybe other scousers did too when he had asked directions outside Limestreet Station? In her case it was probably unfamiliarity with his accent and a mild ,age related ,hearing problem

Caz, I doubt I myself would ask directions inside a train station at a left luggage office.I would prefer to ask directions out on the street so people could point me in the direction needed.
Regarding Aspinall. I don't think Gillbanks ever looked him up as the men he was keen to track down were those three hanratty originally said he stayed with . All were in the business of 'fencing' or they were wanted for trouble with police ranging from non-payment of fines to having flats that were full up with jewellery and not a single one of them wanted anything to do with a Capital murder trial.They nearly all gave false names too .Gillbanks interviewed only Terence McNally and one other ,a Frances Healey . When he interviewed Terence McNally whose home was searched by police on the night of Hanratty's arrest McNally said yes he knew Hanratty but he then refused to be drawn further telling Gillbanks ' if Hanratty is not willing to open up,why should I'. Hanratty was beaten up in Liverpool on his earlier visit there in July and was hospitalised and appears to have been frightened by some of these Liverpool guys who had threatened him not to involve them in any murder trial.

[Derrick]

...He makes no mention of any Tarleton Road but rather refers to "Talbot or Carlton' Road...

He did at the trial on 7th February when giving his evidence in chief.

He mentioned asking for directions to Carlton Road or Tarleton Road.

[caz]

Caz, I doubt I myself would ask directions inside a train station at a left luggage office.I would prefer to ask directions out on the street so people could point me in the direction needed.

Really? I'd have thought someone actually working in the station would have been a better bet for local street knowledge than anyone on the street, many of whom would have come from outside the city centre to shop or sightsee.

Regarding Aspinall. I don't think Gillbanks ever looked him up as the men he was keen to track down were those three hanratty originally said he stayed with . All were in the business of 'fencing' or they were wanted for trouble with police ranging from non-payment of fines to having flats that were full up with jewellery and not a single one of them wanted anything to do with a Capital murder trial.

I find that troublesome to be frank, seeing as Gillbanks was armed with very few possible Carltons, Talbots or Tarletons to check out, and confirmation of Aspinall's address would have backed up the sweet shop claim. Gillbanks may have been 'keen' to track down the other three first, but surely when it became clear they were no help at all, he would have looked for Aspinall as the next best bet. The only reason I can see for no feedback is that Gillbanks did look him up but drew a big fat blank - or even found 'the' Aspinall lived somewhere else entirely. There would not have been much point in Aspinall giving Hanratty his address if he was only known there by a different name.

Love,

Caz
X

[Natalie Severn]

[QUOTE=caz;337713]

Really? I'd have thought someone actually working in the station would have been a better bet for local street knowledge than anyone on the street, many of whom would have come from outside the city centre to shop or sightsee.

Really do disagree Caz. Most people on the street outside Lime Street Station would be heading for the centre from places like Scotland Road and its environs-as many still do today .Liverpool in 1961 was smaller and more local than now .Besides after a train arrives left luggage offices can be quite busy and are not the usual places one would ask directions.

[Natalie Severn]

The only reason I can see for no feedback is that Gillbanks did look him up but drew a big fat blank - or even found 'the' Aspinall lived somewhere else entirely. There would not have been much point in Aspinall giving Hanratty his address if he was only known there by a different name.

Love,

Caz
X

OK Caz--here is what I think:
maybe Gillbanks did try to find him .Maybe Aspinall was 'unavailable'
But lets picture how this ex Liverpool policeman Gillbanks might have come across to James' ex jail pals like Aspinall .
Imaginary conversation between Gillbanks and Aspinall : Gillbanks :" Well if it isn't one of my old 'cases' - put you away for a few years back in 1957 didn't we -how you getting on mate? Are you familiar with a James Hanratty because James is in very deep do do at the minute - up on a murder charge he is and you know what that means don't you Aspinall -now are you willing to help him 'cos Jimmy says it was you he has been looking everywhere for on 22nd August 1961 because you told him you would sell on some dodgy stuff for him? Still in that line are you? Making a bit of profit like ?etc etc
Its more than likely that as soon as Aspinall got wind the law wanted to speak to him you wouldn't have seen him for dust.

[Sherlock Houses]

Following on from Derrick's point ,it may be interesting too to people to check out Carlton Street in Liverpool by googling it as this is close to what Hanratty remembers in sounds --- " Carlton" with its first consonant of 'C ' followed by the same sound order he remembered . On 21/12/ 1961 Hanratty told Joe Gillbanks that Aspinall was a "market trader '. Joe Gillbanks was the ex-policeman employed by Michael Sherrard to carry out further investigations for him . When you google Carton Street in Liverpool [there is no Carton Road] you see a road of mixed dwellings and storage warehouses--just the job for a market trader and a fence I would have thought.

I feel it is important to point out, especially to anyone perhaps thinking Aspinall was a figment of James Hanratty's imagination, that the surname Aspinall is predominantly a Lancastrian one, especially prevalent in the Liverpool and Wigan areas. In fact one of the leading lights in the campaign for justice for the 96 victims of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster is a lady by the name of Margaret Aspinall. It's a possibility that her husband's family is related to the Aspinall that Hanratty knew in Lewes Prison.

For comparison purposes [with other large towns/cities] the numbers of people born with this surname between 1930 and 1940 read as follows :-

Wigan [Lanacashire].............. 157 births
Liverpool [Lancashire]............ 147 births
Manchester [Lancashire]......... 67 births
Blackburn [Lancashire]............ 64 births

London...................................47 births
Birmingham..............................31 births
Sheffield.................................23 births
Leeds.....................................17 births
Bradford..................................14 births

Newcastle................................1 birth
Bristol......................................1 birth

With reference to Aspinall being a "market trader" it is possible that he might have had a stall in the famous Paddy's Market [often called 'Greaty'] in Great Homer Street, just a stone's throw away from the Scotland Road sweetshop. We have no information as to Aspinall's Christian name or age. It's feasible that he was around Hanratty's age which is why I selected the aforementioned decade.

If perchance it was Carlton Street where Aspinall lived [in Hanratty's original statement around mid-October 1961 he mentioned Carlton or Tarleton Avenue] then it's understandable that somebody advised him to take a bus up Scotland Road, as Carlton Street was not a million miles away from David Cowley's sweetshop as can be evidenced by the attached map.The location of Cowley's sweetshop is marked with a cross and Carlton Street [bottom left-hand corner] is marked with an A.

As for what thoroughfare Hanratty enquired of Mrs Dinwoodie, be it Carlton, Tarleton or Talbot, surely the most important thing to note is that all of these are phonetically similar, which is why Mrs Dinwoodie clearly remembers the incident. Why all the nit-picking ? It's not as if Hanratty was asking for a Westminster Road, Abercrombie Street or whatever. And I don't think either Hanratty or Mrs Dinwoodie tape-recorded their conversation, knowing that a couple or months or so down the line people were going to be interrogating them about it.

[ansonman]

"[QUOTE=Sherlock Houses;337717]I feel it is important to point out, especially to anyone perhaps thinking Aspinall was a figment of James Hanratty's imagination, that the surname Aspinall is predominantly a Lancastrian one, especially prevalent in the Liverpool and Wigan areas. In fact one of the leading lights in the campaign for justice for the 96 victims of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster is a lady by the name of Margaret Aspinall. It's a possibility that her husband's family is related to the Aspinall that Hanratty knew in Lewes Prison".

The most successful Liverpool Aspinall was Neil Aspinall of the Beatles fame. Though born in North Wales after his family evacuated from Liverpool during the war, the family returned to Liverpool where in later years Neil became the Beatles road manager and PA, which included driving an old Commer van to and from shows.

He went on to head the Beatles Apple Corps and became the most influential and powerful member of the Beatles team outside of the group members themselves.

Being particularly close to the great John Lennon, Neil would undoubtedly have shared John's absolute belief in Hanratty's innocence.

Ansonman

[moste]

Who is he?

Sorry.Woffinden

[Sherlock Houses]

Hanratty and Liverpool Street names

It is well worth bearing in mind that James Hanratty understandably had some difficulty in remembering Liverpool street names accurately. Understandably because he was a Londoner not too familiar with Liverpool. An illustration of this can be seen when he misled his defence team in October about spending the period August 22nd to 24th with three Liverpool friends, one of whom was Terence McNally. He may well have visted their flat on the Thursday afternoon upon returning from Rhyl. In his statement he says..."During the three days I was in Liverpool, I stayed with McNally in a block of flats known as the Bull Ring or the Gardens in Scotland Road, or a road just off it, Skellone Road"

I know Liverpool well and I'm pretty convinced that Hanratty is referring to Skelhorne Street here, which is located at the side of Lime Street Station. At the top of Skelhorne Street is Copperas Hill and a stone's throw away is St Andrew's Gardens popularly known as the Bull Ring.

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks SH for your post about Hanratty's possible trouble remembering street names. Aspinall himself may well have spoken to Hanratty with a heavy scouse accent with the result that Hanratty may only partially have caught some of the sound order in the names of unfamiliar sounding streets-it happens to lots of people.

[Sherlock Houses]

St. Andrew's Gardens [Bull Ring] Liverpool

Below is a photo of the recently mentioned Bull Ring.

[NickB]

But according to The Guardian report you posted, by the time of the trial he had changed it to Gerard Gardens, which was also known as the Bullring.

S- 'Why switch your story to Gerrard Gardens ?'
H- "That was made on my solicitor's part, not mine."
S- 'I suppose finally you realised that no one would believe this **** and bull story ?'
H- "Yes."

[Natalie Severn]

But according to The Guardian report you posted, by the time of the trial he had changed it to Gerard Gardens, which was also known as the Bullring.

S- 'Why switch your story to Gerrard Gardens ?'
H- "That was made on my solicitor's part, not mine."
S- 'I suppose finally you realised that no one would believe this **** and bull story ?'
H- "Yes."

Swanwick was also complicit in the fabrications about the road works--dealt with in full by Louis Blom-Cooper-pages 95-97 -I only mention it since some here are so busy looking for people telling porkies [No I am not referring to Valerie's testimony btw]. Boy oh Boy did the prosecution bring on a stream of whopper tellers as witnesses ! [Nudds he told such dreadful lies it made one gasp and close ones eyes] xx

Thankx for the picture of the Bull Ring SH !

[Spitfire]

The most successful Liverpool Aspinall was Neil Aspinall of the Beatles fame.

Of course to the general population the name John Aspinall is probably the most financially successful and well known Aspinall of recent times. Aspers was born in 1926 in Delhi, India and was in the 1950's a bookmaker at horse racing courses and greyhound racing tracks, the latter being a well known haunt of James Hanratty.

Hanratty could therefore have being going to Liverpool on his fictitious escapade to see any one of Joe Coral, Victor Chandler, Gus Demmy, Fred Done, Larry Ladbroke or Ronnie Bet365. In the event he chose Aspinall, it was as good or as bad as any and like the rest would only exist in a Liverpool incarnation in the limited mind and imagination of James Hanratty.