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  • Originally posted by cobalt View Post
    Come on Graham. You can do better than that.

    You are now requiring the accused to prove his innocence, Therefore we are all guilty as charged? Until we prove otherwise? You are better than that.
    What an appalling vista you have opened up as Lord Denning might have said...
    Originally posted by cobalt View Post
    Yes, I asked you a question.

    And in order to answer it you had to assume that a man was guilty until proven innocent. This a perversion of what I understand our legal system to be. I hope to hell to you are never again called to jury service. You misunderstand the basic tenets of our legal system. No wonder the man in the dock when you were on jury service back in 1972 was considered bang to rights! The onus is on the prosecution!

    Hanratty had no legal requirement to prove his innocence...
    Hi cobalt,

    You were a bit harsh on Graham there. He doesn't have to 'do better than that'. The accused was found guilty as charged, and two appeals failed to show the verdict was wrong. So in fact yes, the onus changed long ago and is now on the defence to 'prove his innocence', or at least demonstrate why the conviction was unsafe. If they can't do that, I'm afraid Hanratty will remain a convicted killer from a legal standpoint.

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    Last edited by caz; 03-19-2015, 06:31 AM.
    "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


    Comment


    • Originally posted by caz View Post
      Thanks, OneRound.



      Oh absolutely. Similarly, those who know me don't regard me as a hang 'em and flog 'em type. I just hoped my observations on this particular subject had not given that impression to anyone.

      Love,

      Caz
      X
      Hi again Caz - nope, hadn't thought that of you at all. Any impression is one of thoroughness and firm but reasoned argument. If we ever have to choose teams, you will be an early pick for my side!

      Best regards,

      OneRound

      Comment


      • Originally posted by OneRound View Post
        Hi again Caz - nope, hadn't thought that of you at all. Any impression is one of thoroughness and firm but reasoned argument. If we ever have to choose teams, you will be an early pick for my side!

        Best regards,

        OneRound
        Nah, just like Richard Dunne she scores too many own goals and concedes too many penalties. Your team would have to score loads of goals just to nick a point never mind three.
        *************************************
        "A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

        "Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sherlock Houses View Post
          Nah, just like Richard Dunne she scores too many own goals and concedes too many penalties. Your team would have to score loads of goals just to nick a point never mind three.
          Hi Sherlock - well, if we're going to talk football analogies and at risk of appearing ungracious towards any of Caz's delicate footwork, she's always reminded me more of Norman Hunter. Little getting past her and a few legs being bitten in the process!

          Probably also appropriate to point out that Caz's side still lead 1-0 with little sign of an equaliser from the Hanratty team.

          Best regards,

          OneRound

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sherlock Houses View Post
            Nah, just like Richard Dunne she scores too many own goals and concedes too many penalties. Your team would have to score loads of goals just to nick a point never mind three.
            Charmed, I'm sure, SH. Dr Watson would be proud.

            Mrs Hudson
            X

            PS As a Chelsea supporter since the early 60s, I don't have a lot to worry about.
            "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


            Comment


            • Originally posted by OneRound View Post
              Hi Sherlock - well, if we're going to talk football analogies and at risk of appearing ungracious towards any of Caz's delicate footwork, she's always reminded me more of Norman Hunter. Little getting past her and a few legs being bitten in the process!

              Probably also appropriate to point out that Caz's side still lead 1-0 with little sign of an equaliser from the Hanratty team.

              Best regards,

              OneRound
              Lovely!

              Not sure about delicate footwork, OneRound, I tend to wade in with my size fours and kick the opposition into submission.

              I was going to say to SH that it seems I'm on the winning side despite his protestations. 3-0 in fact, taking both lost appeals into account.

              Love,

              Caz
              X
              "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


              Comment


              • Trial transcript

                I have been looking on the web site of the Bedfordshire and Luton Archives and they have transcripts of the shorthand notes made during every day of the trial. I have inquired if these are available for purchase and will let you know when I receive a reply. If they are available, I may buy them and scan them into a PDF file that can be searched.

                Pete

                Comment


                • Originally posted by propatria27 View Post
                  I have been looking on the web site of the Bedfordshire and Luton Archives and they have transcripts of the shorthand notes made during every day of the trial. I have inquired if these are available for purchase and will let you know when I receive a reply. If they are available, I may buy them and scan them into a PDF file that can be searched.

                  Pete
                  Go for it Pete, every little helps.
                  Steve

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by moste View Post
                    ...every little helps...
                    Blimey

                    Do you know how big the transcript really is eh?

                    It runs to 600k words and is reckoned to be about 1200 pages in length over 20 odd volumes; one volume for each day of the trial.

                    So if it costs say a quid a page to copy then even Tesco would renege on the every little helps slogan.

                    Del

                    Comment


                    • Are you listening to Del ,Pete?
                      maybe not a good idea. also , most of us probably can't read short hand anyhow.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by moste View Post
                        Are you listening to Del ,Pete?
                        maybe not a good idea. also , most of us probably can't read short hand anyhow.
                        I think that you would get a transcript of the shorthand notes, not just the notes.

                        One problem is that I am not sure that the copyright in the notes or a transcript from them would be with the Bedfordshire and Luton Archive Services, so they would not be in a position to sell copies of them.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Spitfire View Post
                          I think that you would get a transcript of the shorthand notes, not just the notes.

                          One problem is that I am not sure that the copyright in the notes or a transcript from them would be with the Bedfordshire and Luton Archive Services, so they would not be in a position to sell copies of them.
                          Hi Spitfire

                          2 points;

                          Firstly, I agree that it would be a transcription of the shorthand notes so would therefore not be a problem in comprehension.

                          Secondly, they may well restrict access on the basis of copyright but most libraries allow photocopying of books for academic and research purposes. The main problem one would encounter is republishing it without obtaining any necessary permissions.

                          As an afterthought, I cannot imagine them letting anyone take a complete copy of the whole darn thing though. But that is just my opinion.

                          Del

                          Comment


                          • The Daily Telegraph had detailed court reports. I wonder if these would show any further information.

                            A couple of other newspaper reports I would like to see:

                            - 1966 interview with Louise Anderson in the News of the World;

                            - 1961 interview with Olive Dinwoodie by Don Smith in the Daily Herald.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by NickB View Post
                              The Daily Telegraph had detailed court reports. I wonder if these would show any further information.

                              A couple of other newspaper reports I would like to see:

                              - 1966 interview with Louise Anderson in the News of the World;

                              - 1961 interview with Olive Dinwoodie by Don Smith in the Daily Herald.
                              Hi Nick

                              Your best bet by far would be to go to the British Library's newspaper archive at St Pancras in London.



                              This, unfortunately, for most of us provincial wallahs involves a fair old schlep but they do have everything I believe.

                              Del

                              Comment


                              • Trial transcript

                                This is the reply I got from Bedfordshire and Luton Archives:

                                Thank you for your enquiry. The transcripts were produced by Marten, Meredith & Co of 11 New Court, Carey Street WC2 and I imagine copyright rests with them or their successor firm and it might be more appropriate for you to approach them. This is especially so given (a) the bulk of the transcripts we have 21 volumes at upwards of 50 pages each and staff time spent copying these would be excessive and very costly for you and (b) we do not have the complete transcripts days 9 and 10 are missing as are the first 55 pages of day 11. You are, of course, welcome to come and consult them in our public searchroom.

                                Pete

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